scratch team mailing list archive

[Derek O'Connell <doc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Kent and thanks for the quick reply,

> exec padsp ...

ok, you must have installed PA explicitly since AFAIK it is not part of
the standard Kubuntu installation (not the one I did anyway). One
objective with Scratch is to avoid any additional dependencies where/if
possible to avoid complications for novice users. I've also seen Kubuntu
users reporting problems after installing PA and especially if they then
decide to de-install it, often ending up with no sound at all. Maybe a
wiki page for the adventurous would help even if not officially supported.

Re sound recording, I don't know what your Scratch experience is so
excuse me if I'm stating something obvious to you but Scratch has a
recording facility built in and accessed from the "record" button in the
"sounds" tab. Ideally this should be usable if the VM sound plugin
supports it. I'm not familiar with OSS on top of PA on KDE and don't
know if it even supports recording. Could you check on your system?

>I don't have Gnome installed.
>...
>For sound recording in KDE, actually I use the gnome-sound-recorder.

It seems likely then that you have at least some of the Gnome libs
installed even if you don't have the desktop? I only point this out in
case someone else attempts a Scratch install on a KDE system that has no
gnome libs at all.

Thanks for the install patch, I will try it on my notebook first chance
I get.

-D

On 02/01/2010 09:37, Kent Tong wrote:
> Hi Derek,
>
> From the command line:
>
> exec padsp /usr/lib/squeak/3.11.3-2135/squeakvm -pathenc UTF-8 -encoding UTF-8 -plugins /usr/lib/squeak/3.11.3-2135 -vm-sound-oss ScratchSourceCode1.4.image
>
> I think it is using the  OSS API emulated by the pulseAudio server.
>
>  
> I don't have Gnome installed.
>
> Regarding the KDE install, I've just submitted a patch. Note that I am
> also a KDE newbie.
>
> For sound recording in KDE, actually I use the gnome-sound-recorder.
>
> --
> Author of books for learning CXF, Axis2, Wicket, JSF (http://www.agileskills2.org)
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Derek O'Connell <doc@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> To: Amos Blanton <amos@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>; Kent Tong <freemant2000@xxxxxxxxx>; John Maloney <jmaloney@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: linux <linux@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Sat, January 2, 2010 3:37:49 PM
> Subject: Re: [Scratch] Installation instructions for MIT Scratch on Ubuntu 9.10
>
>  Hi all and Happy New Year!
>
> Sorry if I seemed to have gone AWOL recently, I have visitors over xmas
> and I'm trying hard not to appear antisocial by spending all my time on
> the computer :-) I have been reading emails if not replying and will
> have more time next weekend to catch up on things including making a
> start on a GStreamer plugin for sound playback and recording.
>
> Re PulseAudio problems on 9.10, I last checked the situation two or
> three weeks ago and saw no progress. I will check again this week but
> I'm still more interested in a GStreamer solution not only for sound
> but also for video and especially after discovering that GStreamer's
> plugins may be hardware accelerated on certain platforms. My suspicion
> is that much more effort is going into creating plugins for GStreamer
> than maintaining stand-alone API's such as ALSA and consequently the
> code in GSt plugs are of better quality.
>
> @John: any thoughts about adopting the generic GStreamer plug-in from
> OLPC Etoys? It would be Linux-specific of course. I have GStreamer
> working on Windows too but I don't think it is officially supported and
> is not easy to install/ configure.
>
> @Kent...
>
> thanks for the blog entry re Scratch on Kubuntu. I'm curious that even
> playback works for you because it did not work for me. Up until
> recently I had a pristine Kubuntu 9.10 installation but eventually
> resorted to installing Gnome primarily to get suspend and hibernation
> working on my notebook. I also have some catching up to do re VM
> developments but IIRC there was recent mention of auto-selection of
> sound plugin (could be in the start-up script or binary, I don't know).
> So what I am wondering is do you also have Gnome installed and if you
> can also tell me which sound plugin is actually being used? If the
> latest VM is now actually doing auto-plugin selection then maybe there
> is a terminal message when starting Scratch to indicate which plugin
> has been selected? 
>
> Re KDE and audio generally, I have to admit to being a bit of a KDE
> newbie but IIRC KDE4 uses "Phonon" for audio, correct? It was not clear
> to me what out-of-the-box options there are for none-KDE specific
> programs to play/record sound. Do you know? Another topic that
> interests me is supporting both KDE and Gnome in the same deb package
> but I failed to find any clear info about detecting KDE/Gnome on
> install so that post-inst scripts could set-up menu's/desktop icons,
> etc. Maybe it is as simple as looking for key binaries to detect
> KDE/Gnome and performing dual post-inst config if both are installed?
> Of course I then wonder what the general solution would be if
> "A.N.Other" Window Manager is installed. It would be great if you could
> help fill in the blanks in my KDE knowledge :-) 
>
> Btw, IIUC, the "permission" error you get when trying to download the
> deb from squeakvm.org is because Ian Piumarta deleted it after a
> request from (I assume) Ubuntu/Debian package maintainers. I can only
> guess that this is to support the package maintainers efforts to supply
> only stable/signed releases and to avoid undermining them. If so then
> using "alien" to get around the process might be viewed by some people
> as self defeating. That said, I know very little about package building
> or the process of maintaining one so take my advice with a pinch of
> salt ;-)
>
> Hopefully ^ makes up for any lack of recent response. All the best for
> 2010!
>
> -D
>
>
>
> On 02/01/2010 05:32, Amos Blanton wrote: 
> Hi Kent,
>   
>> Thanks!
>> Sound playback works fine with the Scratch debian package because it's using
>> the pulseaudio plugin (and an old version of the squeak-vm). Sound recording
>> has the same problem you mention. Derek O'Connell is working on a fix, but
>> we haven't heard from him in a while.
>>
>> -Amos
>>
>> On Fri, Jan 1, 2010 at 9:34 PM, Kent Tong <freemant2000@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>
>> Hi John,
>>     
>>> Sound playback is working fine, but recording quality is poor (quite
>>> some delay and some noise). But as people can always record outside
>>> Scratch (eg, using gnome-sound-recorder), this is not a show stopper.
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Author of books for learning CXF, Axis2, Wicket, JSF (
>>> http://www.agileskills2.org)
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------------------
>>> *From:* John Maloney <jmaloney@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>
>>> *To:* Kent Tong <freemant2000@xxxxxxxxx>
>>> *Cc:* linux@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> *Sent:* Fri, January 1, 2010 9:46:19 PM
>>>
>>> *Subject:* Re: Installation instructions for MIT Scratch on Ubuntu 9.10
>>>
>>> Hi, Kent.
>>>
>>> Thank you. This *is* very useful, especially the instructions on what you
>>> need to get to compile the UnicodePlugin.
>>>
>>> How is the sound working? Does recording work? We've been having trouble
>>> with the switch from ALSA to Pulse Audio, but I believe the Squeak
>>> maintainers were working on that so perhaps the latest Squeak fixes it...
>>>
>>> We are working on a package for Ubuntu 9.10.
>>>
>>>    -- John
>>>
>>> On Jan 1, 2010, at 1:58 AM, Kent Tong wrote:
>>>
>>>    
>>> Hi,
>>>       
>>>> As the .deb package isn't working for me (Kubuntu 9.10), I've
>>>> got it installed manually:
>>>> http://agileskills2.org/blog/2010/01/installing_mit_scratch_on_ubun.html
>>>>
>>>> Hope this info may be useful to some people out there.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Author of books for learning CXF, Axis2, Wicket, JSF (
>>>>      
>>>>         
>>> http://www.agileskills2.org)
>>>   
>>>       
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