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Den 2016-09-05 kl. 10:34, skrev Nio Wiklund:
Den 2016-09-05 kl. 06:02, skrev Nio Wiklund:Den 2016-09-04 kl. 22:13, skrev Israel:On 09/04/2016 09:54 AM, Nio Wiklund wrote:[bottom posting] Den 2016-09-04 kl. 13:29, skrev Ali/amjjawad:Hi all, On *Wed, Aug 31, 2016* at 8:53 PM, Ali/amjjawad <amjjawad@xxxxxxxxxx <mailto:amjjawad@xxxxxxxxxx>> wrote: [Draft 2] 4 days and not even one single word from anyone?! very interesting :) _*ToriOS 1.0*_ * ToriOS is a GNU/Linux Operating System built for very old computers (NON PAE) and for those who are interested and brave enough to build their own system the way they like from a fully working base with GUI and minimal installed packages by default. * For more information, please visit: http://torios.top/ _*Technical Specifications*_ * ToriOS 1.0 is based on the stable release of Debian 8 (Jessie) - https://wiki.debian.org/DebianJessie <https://wiki.debian.org/DebianJessie>. * Supported until 2020 - https://wiki.debian.org/LTS. * Has two different kernels: Non-PAE and PAE kernel. * Technically, 128MB of RAM is fine but you need more RAM if you wish to use the Internet. * Minimum Intel Celeron, ATOM or P4. * 4GB disk space is more than enough. * Either a CD/DVD drive or an USB port for the installer media. * JWM is the default Windows Manager. _*Features*_ _*Known Issues*_ _*Download ToriOS 1.0*_ * Please make sure to read the release notes before anything else, specially the known bugs and the workarounds. * Make sure to backup your important files. Don't blame the OS for any fault if you failed to backup what you care about. * http://torios.top/download/ Nothing else in mind at the moment. That's just the 2nd draft. There should be more drafts until we reach the final one. All help and contribution are welcome! -- Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us." Best Regards, Ali/amjjawad <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad> -- Remember: "All of us are smarter than any one of us." Best Regards, Ali/amjjawad <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/amjjawad>Hi Ali, I have one big objection: ----- Technically, 128MB of RAM is fine but you need more RAM if you wish to use the Internet. ----- should be changed to ----- Technically, 256 MB of RAM is fine but you need more RAM if you wish to use the Internet for browsing to web pages. ----- The reason for this is that I tested the release candidate now in my Dell Dimension 4600 with a Pentium 4 processor. I bought this computer in January 2004, it is 12 1/2 years old, and is rather typical for the computers where ToriOS is supposed to work. And it needs 256 MB RAM to install ToriOS using the OBI-installer. The installed system needs only 128 MB RAM, but it must be installed! (I can install it in text mode with my original One Button Installer or with 9w.) Maybe it is possible to use ToriOS live in VirtualBox with only 128 MB RAM, but I doubt that it can install a system using the OBI-installer. Possible reasons for the increased need of RAM: 1. Changed base from Ubuntu 12.04 to Debian Jessie. I don't know how much this increases the size, but both the kernel, language packs and systemd make a difference. 2. Change to highest compression of the tarball, 8MB --> 65MB RAM. A solution is to use standard compression, but it means that things must be stripped from the live system and/or the tarball to stay within CD size. 3. Graphics only. I could not boot with text screen. Maybe it is possible, but the boot option 'text' did not do the trick, and I don't know systemd well enough to make it work. Maybe a solution would be to provide a line in the boot menu for booting in text mode. See the attached file for more details about my test. Best regards NioHi Nio, I could try to make a less compressed tarball (no super xz compression) and see how big it is... we have around 3 MiB to spare.... so it *might* be possible to slim the ISO a bit, and work it to be thinner.... OR make a much more bare-bones tarball and prompt the user to install some really needed packages right away. Maybe leave that in the jwmrc file until they run the script and install things? just a thought. -- RegardsHi Israel, A much more barebone tarball with standard xz compression would be a good idea. I would suggest making two iso files for the next released version ToriOS-1.1: 1. a minimal CD size iso file 2. a larger iso file, between 1 and 2 GB, which contains most things a normal user might need, so that it would work well when installed without an internet connection. I suggest that you use standard xz compression in both cases in order to decrease the usage of RAM during installation. Best regards NioHi again, 1. I re-did the test of yesterday and can confirm, that the installation in my Dell with Pentium 4 fails at 192 MiB, while it works at 256 MiB RAM. 2. I created a 'custom ToriOS tarball' from an installed 'current ToriOS release candidate' for the original One Button Installer, which boots from USB (and can be chainloaded from CD via Plop). "ToriOS-1.0-debian_OT_use-by-OBI-in-trusty-2016-sep.tar.xz" I ran the original One Button Installer in text mode, and could install this 'custom ToriOS tarball' in my Dell at 128 MiB RAM. It used 41 MiB RAM when idle. This system creates zRAM, which helps too. More data are shown in the attached file. 3. If you wish, I can prepare a suitable tarball to be uploaded. a. The current one is a plain system with the user 'guru' and password 'changeme'. It could be improved. b. I can also create a dedicated system with the tarball already there in the One Button Installer. (The original One Button Installer is delivered without any tarball.) -o- 4. I still think we should release ToriOS 1.0 tomorrow, as it is: the current release candidate "ToriOS-Debian-2016-08.22.iso" 5. I'm telling you this to discuss what to do in the future. If it is really important to offer something for old computers with less than 256 MiB RAM, there are several ways to go. a. Maybe we need not offer the most straightforward installation method in such cases, because if people really need or want to use such old computers, they can be expected to select and learn a more complicated method. And we can spend some time to make the instructions easy to follow - step by step, including Plop. b. Otherwise 'a minimal CD size iso file' where the tarball is compressed with the standard xz method should work pretty well. Maybe the live system (and the installer) must run in text mode in order to allow installation at 128 MB RAM. 6. The next step in making things minimal is to provide a text-only tarball with menus for people to start selecting suitable window managers or desktop environments. One of these can be the current ToriOS desktop which is based on JWM. You can compare with the system described at the following links, https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OBI#Trusty-mini-txt https://help.ubuntu.com/community/Installation/UEFI-and-BIOS/stable-alternative#Mini_system_with_.27text.27_screen_user_interface (should be one line, line-break by the email software). Best regards Nio
Hi again,Another test of ToriOS live, this time in my IBM Thinkpad T42 with a Pentium M processor without a PAE flag. It is approximately as old as my old Dell (from around 2004, I bought it second hand).
mem=128M - did not boot: 'kernel panic' mem=192M - works and can run the OBI-installer (and install ToriOS)The OBI installer works in this case, but there was a problem. The desktop environment was completely locked, but there was activity (the indicator LEDs for the pendrive and HDD were flashing and there was HDD noise), and finally (when the tarball was extracted) the desktop was revived, and I could continue the dialogue and finish the installation.
At one stage during the installation, when the swap partition was created, it was recognized and swapped on, and things became nicer. After the installation, 29 MiB of swap was used.
- So the IBM Thinkpad T42 needs only 192 MiB RAM, - while the Dell Dimension 4600 needs 256 MiB RAM.I still think it is a good idea to keep the value 256 MiB RAM in the release notes, but I wanted you to know this result. Maybe you can add that it works in some computers with 192 MiB RAM.
Best regards Nio
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