On 06/01/14 01:43, Daniel Espinosa
wrote:
First all. Please I'm not trying to FUD Ubuntu or Ubuntu GNOME in
any way. Just like to have a decent Ubuntu and GNOME DE in PC for
a long time and using the more stable and usable, jet updated one.
El sáb, 4 de ene 2014 a las 6:37 , Tim <tim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
escribió:
On 05/01/14 11:02, Daniel Espinosa
wrote:
I can see, as you decribed before, that Ubuntu
GNOME depends totally on Ubuntu Desktop team, to get its stuff
in place, if some bugs (like LP: #1228765) stops us to
complete ship GNOME 3.10, then we will be halted at the
version Unity can or wants to use because they are focused in
their Ubuntu's Desktop and just use the one technology they
need for they goals.
Sure there is some overlap between Ubuntu and Ubuntu GNOME, but
its certainly not the case that we depend 'totally' on what the
ubuntu desktop team does. This overlap is reducing each cycle.
LP: #1228765 is not really specific to Unity, it will affect
other DE's that are metacity/compiz based also.
Then what about if LP: #1228765? If it is not fixed on time,
we could stay on 3.8 not 3.10, even can't run to 3.12. Hope
Ubuntu Desktop developers take this in consideration about, how
their considerations affects other Ubuntu flavors.
GNOME developers are as much to blame for that bug, for having no
concern about backwards compatibility with GNOME derived DE's.
Regardless of what happens with that bug you will have the option of
getting the remaining 3.10 bits from the PPA. Likewise with 3.12 if
you want the bleeding edge packages.
At some point GNOME, may use/depend on systemd for some
of its functions, if that conflics with Ubuntu
goals/features they will drop or neglet to use any module
depending that technology.
Ubuntu is already using many systemd components. Its really only
the systemd init component they are not using.
The really point here is:
What technology will be accepted in Ubuntu repositories to be
used by Ubuntu flavors?
The init system is very core to a distro, you can't just go
switching it out. Other technology such as wayland is no issue and
can be included in the repositories.
and
What if a flavor wants to pick updated versions? Are they
blocked by incompatibilities with Unitiy? Just to know.
Right now, yes. But once Ubuntu switch to MIR/Unity 8 there will be
very little overlap and most issues will be gone.
I've seen Debian devate on what init system to use,
discusing systemd portability or abailavility to all its
platforms, that means GNOME must take care about to have
hard dependencies on modules, if they want to be considered
as default desktop enviroment in Debian or some other
distributions not using or providing the required packages.
I don't see how what init system debian chooses, affects what
DE's can be run.
This is a reflextion for GNOME developers, but is a matter of
Ubuntu GNOME. Ubuntu GNOME Team requires to interact with Ubuntu
Unity developers and with GNOME ones, in order to conciliate or
try to push some decisitions, in order to provide a high quality
and updated GNOME flavor.
Why is that a problem?
I love Ubuntu, I've used for a long time now. I think
they provide good hardware support and great community. I
love it the more when it uses GNOME as default, now I just
see lot of forks, patched libraries, and missing hardware
tests to other DE different from Unity one. Then AMD graphic
cards will work better on Unity than in GNOME Shell, for
example. This will prevent Ubuntu GNOME to provide high
quality software with good support from other vendors, until
(may be) Red Hat release a desent version of GNOME Shell for
it RHED.
No idea what you are talking about here, graphics drivers are
not specific to Unity.
I mean: Are Ubuntu Desktop Developers testing all hardware
for all flavors? I think no.They focus on Unity.
This is precisely why Ubuntu GNOME and all other flavours have QA
teams
When finally I update to GNOME 3, first time it was available
on Ubuntu, I can't use my ATI drivers in gnome-shell, but in
Unity, I had to search to install my self (losing the "out of
the box" Ubuntu provides for most).
When I install Ubuntu GNOME 13.10, I don't figured out that
it is not using ATI propietary drivers, until I install VMWare
to test Ubuntu GNOME 14.04 Alpha 1. When to install drivers from
repositories I get a broken system, then I need to remove ATI
propietary drivers. I'm still investigating about this issue and
found my card is not supported in lastest AMD linux drivers, but
on legacy ones, I'll try to install and test. Of course this is
my issue not related with this thread and I'll report any issue
if is Ubuntu GNOME related.
AMD proprietary drivers are problematic on Linux in general, that is
nothing specific to Ubuntu GNOME
Why I just can't release a different set of packages from
Ubuntu? They are just for different applications, if we fix
the ones for Ubuntu GNOME we can just release them and
Ubuntu just prevent to use that packages by mark them as
"CONFLICT" with Unity's packages.
That is not how the archives work, essentially to do that
requires forking the packages. Nobody wants to maintain multiple
forks of the same program.
How Ubuntu GNOME Team, can discuss with Ubuntu Developers, in
order to take actions like fork GNOME modules for their Unity
desktop, to not bloking other flavors to provide updated
modules. I know this requires more maintenace work in time
being, but that means less conflicts and frictions with other
projects.
We have no plans to fork the entire desktop, that kind of defeats
the purpose of being an official flavour.
A message to Ubuntu Desktop Developers: "JUST LET THEM BE AND
RE-USE THE ONES YOU WANT".
We work closely with ubuntu-desktop team and I can assure you, they
are not intentionally blocking anything, in fact quite the opposite.
This cycle they have updated gtk to 3.10 and are forking
gnome-settings-daemon and gnome-control-center. This work is largely
being done just to unblock things for Ubuntu GNOME.
I would really like to have a huge community for Ubuntu GNOME
for test and packaging, providing updated versions of GNOME and
a high quallity product.
Have you consider to switch over next 3.14 GNOME version, for
next cycle. I think we could get help from Debian guys for
packaging and testing, some other developers will help and
convert GNOME lastet version as first citizen in Ubuntu (I know
it is for Ubuntu GNOME, but now we are one version behind).
This won't happen see previous emails for the reasons why.
El sáb, 4 de ene 2014 a las 5:27 , Tim <tim@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
escribió:
On
03/01/14 06:53, Erick Brunzell wrote:
Will that possibly be included in the drop
to trusty-proposed? I gave it a go this AM
transferring a large number of files from the hard
drive out of a bricked laptop and the transfer rate
was great. I also think it has a much cleaner layout.
I love that they integrated window management with the
other controls because it reduces vertical screen
usage. Great improvements over 3.8 :^)
Hoping to get it uploaded to Trusty, however since its
shared with Ubuntu, depends on getting ubuntu-desktop
team approval.
Lance
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