ubuntu-phone team mailing list archive

[Jeremy Bell <bell.jeremy@xxxxxxxxx>]

There is more to it than providing the sources for the library the app
includes, at least for commercial applications.

To summarize this:
http://answers.google.com/answers/threadview/id/439136.html
1) The application and the shared library must be distributed separately.
If the application and the shared library are distributed together (e.g. as
a bundled, self-contained app package), then the whole work (app + library)
is considered a "derivative work", similar to static linking the library.
For the LGPL, that means your application code must be LGPL, so this cannot
be used for closed source application development, or in any case where you
also bundle another library with your app that has a license which is
incompatible with the LGPL and you don't own the copyright to re-license
the work under the LGPL.
2) If you make any modifications to the library, you must provide the
source to those modifications under the same license.
3) The application must allow the end user to modify (or if you prefer,
must not prevent the user from modifying) the LGPL binary in question
without your permission or intervention and without recompilation of your
application binary, and must also not prevent the user from reverse
engineering your application, for the purposes of debugging their
modifications to the shared LGPL library used by your app.

You mentioned the 2) requirement, but 1) and 3) are also requirements, and
are not possible to comply with in a BYOD self-contained app packaging
platform, because ALL apps must bundle their dependencies in the same app
package, which cannot be modified after installation.

And, please note that nobody can use the LGPL license of the mono library
(or any other LGPL library) in an application distributed on iOS or Android
app stores. All use of mono on those platforms is via a commercial dual
license sold to them by the author of the library, Xamarin. The LGPL
license cannot be used with those app packaging models either.

Regards,
Jeremy


On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 1:24 PM, Ted Gould <ted@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> **
>
> I don't see any reason that this is LGPL incompatible.  It just means that
> the app author needs to provide sources for the library that they include.
> Just like I can provide a binary distribution on a CD and then provide
> sources separately.
>
> There is no plan at this time to include Mono in the base image.  That of
> course can change, but nothing currently requires it that would justify
> including it.  Most of the apps that are being developed using Mono for iOS
> and Android currently use the shaped binary mode of Mono to create a native
> executable.  I would expect that Mono using apps would do the same thing on
> Ubuntu.
>
> Ted
>
>
> On Tue, 2013-05-14 at 10:17 -0400, Jeremy Bell wrote:
>
> Thanks Ted for your more clear answer. This is most unfortunate. I would
> have thought that, if any mobile OS would be LGPL friendly, it would be
> Ubuntu. Unfortunately if it is truly BYOD, it is once again impossible for
> apps to comply with the LGPL license of third party libraries.
>
>
>
>  Is there any possibility of the Ubuntu team rethinking their position on
> this? Large swaths of third party libraries are licensed under the LGPL and
> would quite effectively be excluded from use in Ubuntu mobile apps, where
> the same libraries would be perfectly fine in desktop apps. Why exclude
> them from mobile and not desktop? I don't see any difference between mobile
> and desktop apps beyond layout/UX needs, which have nothing at all to do
> with shared library dependencies.
>
>
>
>  I realize that BYOD is the new norm in app packaging everywhere, and
> that the LGPL is incompatible with this environment, but there are quite a
> few useful, mature LGPL licensed libraries out there. But, assuming you
> don't change your mind, would you at least be willing to include the mono
> runtime in the "base image" you mentioned? This would allow easy porting
> of, for example, various MonoGame games that currently run on various
> platforms, from iOS, Android, Windows 8, etc..
>
>
>
>  Regards,
>
>  Jeremy
>
>
>
>  On Tue, May 14, 2013 at 8:51 AM, Ted Gould <ted@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>
> We expect that applications that need sophisticated dependency schemes
> will include those dependencies in their own packages.  There will be a
> base image that everyone can depend on, but beyond that, you'll need to
> BYOD (bring your own dependency).
>
> There'll be a difference between packages that are part of core Ubuntu
> (the archives) and those that are distributed via the Software Center.
> Applications in the archive will continue to have the rich dependencies.
>
> All of this is under the title of "Click Packages" and is being discussed
> at vUDS in a few hours:
> http://summit.ubuntu.com/uds-1305/meeting/21760/foundations-1305-click-package/
>
> Ted
>
>
>
> On Tue, 2013-05-14 at 08:45 -0400, Jeremy Bell wrote:
>
> I tried asking this question on the forums and the IRC channel, but
> haven't been able to find someone with the right answer.
>
> I am researching whether it would be possible to distribute a shared
> library/runtime package on the Ubuntu software center for distribution on
> the phone and tablet versions of ubuntu. And additionally, whether mobile
> apps distributed through the software center can take dependencies on these
> shared library/runtime packages, such that they are automatically installed
> when the user installs the app.
>
> I assumed so, as desktop apps can do this, and it appeared to be the
> intent to share the same ecosystem with the desktop app center.
>
> For example, this would allow distribution of apps using alternate
> languages and runtimes, such as ruby, python, or Mono/.net with platform
> bindings. In my case, I am interested in using Mono, which is licensed
> under LGPL, and so the shared library approach would be the only way to
> distribute my app without it falling under the category of "derivative
> work" in the license. Note that in the case of Mono, the mono executable
> may be needed in addition to the shared libraries to run the app.
>
> So this boils down to three questions:
> 1) can developers distribute shared library/runtime packages as is done on
> the desktop, e.g. the mono package on the desktop.
> 2) can apps take dependencies on these packages and have them auto
> installed?
> 3) once installed, can users overwrite shared libraries installed on their
> device with their own versions? It's ok I think if they have to unlock
> their phones first or tether them to a pc, etc... This is required for
> compliance with the gpl/lgpl.
>
> Thanks!
> Jeremy
>
>
>
>
>
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>
>
>
>
>  --
>
>  Jeremy Bell
>
>  Sleepy Daddy Software™
>
> ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
>
>  Have a little one? Try Giggle Pad© for Windows Phone 7, a fun and
> educational game for children 9 months and older:
>
>
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>
>
>
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>
>
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>
>
>  Giggle Pad and Pixel Checkup are copyright © 2010 Jeremy Bell and Sleepy
> Daddy Software™
>
>
>
>


-- 
Jeremy Bell
Sleepy Daddy Software™
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Have a little one? Try Giggle Pad© for Windows Phone 7, a fun and
educational game for children 9 months and older:
http://social.zune.net/redirect?type=phoneApp&id=5858669e-88d5-df11-a844-00237de2db9e

Does your brand new Windows Phone 7 have dead pixels or screen
discoloration? Find out with Pixel Checkup© for Windows Phone 7:
http://social.zune.net/redirect?type=phoneApp&id=1f5d0cf5-a2d8-df11-a844-00237de2db9e

Giggle Pad and Pixel Checkup are copyright © 2010 Jeremy Bell and Sleepy
Daddy Software™