ubuntu-phone team mailing list archive

[Lou Greenwood <lougreenwood@xxxxxx>]

Excuse me if I'm misunderstadning you, but an FTP app wouldn't require a back button as it isn't a page stack, same goes for (most) games, they use custom UI's (think Angry Birds etc).

http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/global-patterns/navigation

From what I understand, Back is used in a very specific set of circumstances, these are _only_ page stack views beyond the 1st page. As an example, opening the settings app for the first time wouldn't have a back button, but navigating to 'settings > general > option 3 > bla' would require a back button for each layer of the hierarchy.

To my eyes, the issue just isn't one of discoverability, or familiarity, but also one of adding un-necessary gestures, movements and actions to reveal a tool bar _every time_ a user needs to go navigate back. The issue is form over function in an attempt at creating a chromeless fullscreen layout. Hiding the back button in all instances only serves to add complexity in an attempt to create a superficial minimalism.

Don't get me wrong, I'm vocal about this because I think the OS is a beautiful piece of design, not because I want to pick holes. I don't think that hiding a critical navigation device serves the purpose of the vision - "...give a
very natural feel to touch screen interactions and require minimal effort from the use."

http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/get-started/design-vision


Again, take a look at this video example Evernote I uploaded, it's a beautiful method for dealing with toolbars, but I suggest it _only_ in the areas in deep page stack views - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX1xelZhkEU


Warmest regards

Lou




On 13 Jun 2013, at 22:33, Daniel Clem <clem11388@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Non-dev comment:
> Revealing controls on scroll up would work if you want it to be same for all apps, as not all apps scroll. Such as the FTP server app I use for my Droid. Or video games that need a.menu for settings and saving games, but no scrolling at all.
> 
> My personal opinion is this menu should hide by default but leave a very visible shadow over the bottom of the screen (ontop the app all the time) done in such a way to hint that something in hidden there.
> 
> The whole system here is based on short and long swipes. If the user doesn't know to short swipe up for the menu, then they most likely don't yet know any of the other swipe actions either. A tutorial to teach the first user is all that is needed, then that user would teach their friends/family that use it. That.is the only ways ANYone learns Android, WebOS or any new system.
> 
> Sidenote on back button actions. Short swipe up shows the menu, what does a long swipe up do? Could a long swipe up be use for "Back” action? I use the back button ALLLLL the time in every app, including the apps someone else mentioned weren't common for back actions. As a user I bounce from one part of an app to another using "back” because few if any apps are designed in such a way that any feature or area can quickly be reached by any other part. So backing out to a common are is what's needed most the time even if its only one level deep.
> 
> What do you all think?
> Thank you and God Bless,
> Clem
> 
> Lou Greenwood <lougreenwood@xxxxxx> wrote:
> My personal opinion is that it's possible to find a solution which works for all situations, rather than creating fragmentation in the UI by letting individual dev's make too many choices.
> 
>> 1. Use the developer’s toolkit
> 
>> 
> 
>> Here is our handy developer’s toolkit which contains all the essential building blocks to
> 
>> help you get started! We use our building blocks to keep our apps consistent, and so we
> 
>> don’t carry other platform’s UI elements or behaviours.
> 
> 
>> /\ http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/get-started/make-it-ubuntu
> 
> 
> I've just uploaded a short clip of the Evernote app on iOS, the way it handles the toolbar is beautifully intuitive and invisible.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX1xelZhkEU
> 
> Something like this Evernote example (default visible, hides on scroll/interaction, reveals on scroll up), which is  _only_ implemented on deep page stack pages would be my suggestion. As far as I can see from the design spec, no other page types have this 'back' problem. See this link for the various page types > http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/global-patterns/navigation.
> 
> Lou
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 13 Jun 2013, at 18:18, Omar B. <estelar57@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
>> Some apps don't have a problem with users going "back". For example the *Friends* app shows both its Breadcrumbs and the bottom toolbar by default:
>> 
>> http://youtu.be/Q566IGyVB0o?t=8m36s
>> 
>> Apps should probably decide if they want to show these toolbars by default (or when one goes deeper in the stack like others mentioned) if its better for their users (and allow users to hide them if they want more screen). I think this approach might be better than trying a "one fits all".
>> 
>> Regards.
>> 
>> > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 17:02:58 +0100
>> > From: mpt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > To: ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> > Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Page stack back gesture
>> > 
>> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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>> > 
>> > Scott May wrote on 12/06/13 12:33:
>> > > 
>> > > Yeah I'm a "me too" on the concern that the "back" button is too 
>> > > hidden given it's frequent use. Perhaps we won't need "back" so
>> > > much in this new environment?
>> > 
>> > The System Settings design uses deep page stacks -- for example, five
>> > levels deep when setting a background picture.
>> > <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Appearance#Phone>
>> > 
>> > Discoverability of "Back" is my biggest concern with System Settings
>> > right now. In a couple of cases I've specified that the toolbar should
>> > be visible all the time: for example, the screen for choosing an area
>> > of the background picture. But that's only because the toolbar
>> > contains other buttons on those particular screens.
>> > 
>> > > In any case, with gestures we need to be very mindful of how apps
>> > > are going to operate. We don't want to offer a gesture that might
>> > > look anything like something you might do in reasonable use of some
>> > > app that doesn't exist on this platform yet. Think about about
>> > > what you do on the screen when say, using a map, drawing a picture,
>> > > moving a piece in a game etc, etc. I think gestures coming in from
>> > > the edge are fairly safe, but the main screen area is for the
>> > > app...
>> > > 
>> > > ...
>> > 
>> > A gesture might be more efficient than revealing the toolbar then
>> > tapping Back. But I doubt it would be more discoverable.
>> > 
>> > - -- 
>> > mpt
>> > 
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>> > iEYEARECAAYFAlG57TEACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoGzwCgo4vTTmdYlcLHYGnl0LQz71HC
>> > eckAoI1i56T817vHSEfYS/WGBaHTkfV5
>> > =s1ad
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>> > 
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