ubuntu-phone team mailing list archive

[Daniel Clem <clem11388@xxxxxxxxx>]

First sorry if i misunderstand somethings as i'm not a dev, but wish to give my feedback and opinions as best i can.

I looked at the wiki just now, so now I understand the difference of the intended flat UI vs page stack UI. So perhaps Ubuntu Touch apps will be developed differently than Android apos. But the FTP I mentioned about I was just saying about how to reveal the bottom menu. Like I have 4 buttons on my Droid, menu, home, back, then search. And the menu was what I was referring to on FTP and games. I did watch the Evernote video you shared. If an app can not scroll up or sideways (any app that is simple and small or is a game), then reveal menu on scroll wouldn't work (in my opinion). And since almost every app would probably need a menu of some kind then you need the revealing to always be the same. Whereas the Evernote menu works differently than the rest of iOS creating inconsistency on the device.

As for Back button perhaps I am not visualizing how apps will be laid out in this Flat, Deep, and Page Stack style of UI's, so please excuse my assumptions coming from Android. But I don't think its a good idea to have the "Back” action only available in the menu tool bar on the bottom. 2 reasons being.
   -being hidden by default, it slows the UI flow because I go into settings of some apps a lot to change things, try it, then go back change again, try it again, ect over and over when playing with new apps. And having to reveal the hidden menu just to get to a back button seems really cumbersome and slow. The Back action (in my opinion) should be done with a gesture. So backing out of settings or other places (SMS, Emails, Contacts Info, Music Library, ect ) is just as fact as pressing the back button on my Droid. 

Backing out of iOS settings, menus  and other things has always been very unintuitive for me. My dad has a ipad (Present for him, big mistake :-/ ) and he always has trouble and asks me for help. So please don't take iOS as a great example as its my least enjoyable OS.

    God Bless
        Clem



Lou Greenwood <lougreenwood@xxxxxx> wrote:

>Excuse me if I'm misunderstadning you, but an FTP app wouldn't require
>a back button as it isn't a page stack, same goes for (most) games,
>they use custom UI's (think Angry Birds etc).
>
>http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/global-patterns/navigation
>
>From what I understand, Back is used in a very specific set of
>circumstances, these are _only_ page stack views beyond the 1st page.
>As an example, opening the settings app for the first time wouldn't
>have a back button, but navigating to 'settings > general > option 3 >
>bla' would require a back button for each layer of the hierarchy.
>
>To my eyes, the issue just isn't one of discoverability, or
>familiarity, but also one of adding un-necessary gestures, movements
>and actions to reveal a tool bar _every time_ a user needs to go
>navigate back. The issue is form over function in an attempt at
>creating a chromeless fullscreen layout. Hiding the back button in all
>instances only serves to add complexity in an attempt to create a
>superficial minimalism.
>
>Don't get me wrong, I'm vocal about this because I think the OS is a
>beautiful piece of design, not because I want to pick holes. I don't
>think that hiding a critical navigation device serves the purpose of
>the vision - "...give a
>very natural feel to touch screen interactions and require minimal
>effort from the use."
>
>http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/get-started/design-vision
>
>
>Again, take a look at this video example Evernote I uploaded, it's a
>beautiful method for dealing with toolbars, but I suggest it _only_ in
>the areas in deep page stack views -
>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX1xelZhkEU
>
>
>Warmest regards
>
>Lou
>
>
>
>
>On 13 Jun 2013, at 22:33, Daniel Clem <clem11388@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> Non-dev comment:
>> Revealing controls on scroll up would work if you want it to be same
>for all apps, as not all apps scroll. Such as the FTP server app I use
>for my Droid. Or video games that need a.menu for settings and saving
>games, but no scrolling at all.
>> 
>> My personal opinion is this menu should hide by default but leave a
>very visible shadow over the bottom of the screen (ontop the app all
>the time) done in such a way to hint that something in hidden there.
>> 
>> The whole system here is based on short and long swipes. If the user
>doesn't know to short swipe up for the menu, then they most likely
>don't yet know any of the other swipe actions either. A tutorial to
>teach the first user is all that is needed, then that user would teach
>their friends/family that use it. That.is the only ways ANYone learns
>Android, WebOS or any new system.
>> 
>> Sidenote on back button actions. Short swipe up shows the menu, what
>does a long swipe up do? Could a long swipe up be use for "Back”
>action? I use the back button ALLLLL the time in every app, including
>the apps someone else mentioned weren't common for back actions. As a
>user I bounce from one part of an app to another using "back” because
>few if any apps are designed in such a way that any feature or area can
>quickly be reached by any other part. So backing out to a common are is
>what's needed most the time even if its only one level deep.
>> 
>> What do you all think?
>> Thank you and God Bless,
>> Clem
>> 
>> Lou Greenwood <lougreenwood@xxxxxx> wrote:
>> My personal opinion is that it's possible to find a solution which
>works for all situations, rather than creating fragmentation in the UI
>by letting individual dev's make too many choices.
>> 
>>> 1. Use the developer’s toolkit
>> 
>>> 
>> 
>>> Here is our handy developer’s toolkit which contains all the
>essential building blocks to
>> 
>>> help you get started! We use our building blocks to keep our apps
>consistent, and so we
>> 
>>> don’t carry other platform’s UI elements or behaviours.
>> 
>> 
>>> /\ http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/get-started/make-it-ubuntu
>> 
>> 
>> I've just uploaded a short clip of the Evernote app on iOS, the way
>it handles the toolbar is beautifully intuitive and invisible.
>> 
>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HX1xelZhkEU
>> 
>> Something like this Evernote example (default visible, hides on
>scroll/interaction, reveals on scroll up), which is  _only_ implemented
>on deep page stack pages would be my suggestion. As far as I can see
>from the design spec, no other page types have this 'back' problem. See
>this link for the various page types >
>http://design.ubuntu.com/apps/global-patterns/navigation.
>> 
>> Lou
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> On 13 Jun 2013, at 18:18, Omar B. <estelar57@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> 
>>> Some apps don't have a problem with users going "back". For example
>the *Friends* app shows both its Breadcrumbs and the bottom toolbar by
>default:
>>> 
>>> http://youtu.be/Q566IGyVB0o?t=8m36s
>>> 
>>> Apps should probably decide if they want to show these toolbars by
>default (or when one goes deeper in the stack like others mentioned) if
>its better for their users (and allow users to hide them if they want
>more screen). I think this approach might be better than trying a "one
>fits all".
>>> 
>>> Regards.
>>> 
>>> > Date: Thu, 13 Jun 2013 17:02:58 +0100
>>> > From: mpt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> > To: ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> > Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] [Design] Page stack back gesture
>>> > 
>>> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>>> > Hash: SHA1
>>> > 
>>> > Scott May wrote on 12/06/13 12:33:
>>> > > 
>>> > > Yeah I'm a "me too" on the concern that the "back" button is too
>
>>> > > hidden given it's frequent use. Perhaps we won't need "back" so
>>> > > much in this new environment?
>>> > 
>>> > The System Settings design uses deep page stacks -- for example,
>five
>>> > levels deep when setting a background picture.
>>> > <https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Appearance#Phone>
>>> > 
>>> > Discoverability of "Back" is my biggest concern with System
>Settings
>>> > right now. In a couple of cases I've specified that the toolbar
>should
>>> > be visible all the time: for example, the screen for choosing an
>area
>>> > of the background picture. But that's only because the toolbar
>>> > contains other buttons on those particular screens.
>>> > 
>>> > > In any case, with gestures we need to be very mindful of how
>apps
>>> > > are going to operate. We don't want to offer a gesture that
>might
>>> > > look anything like something you might do in reasonable use of
>some
>>> > > app that doesn't exist on this platform yet. Think about about
>>> > > what you do on the screen when say, using a map, drawing a
>picture,
>>> > > moving a piece in a game etc, etc. I think gestures coming in
>from
>>> > > the edge are fairly safe, but the main screen area is for the
>>> > > app...
>>> > > 
>>> > > ...
>>> > 
>>> > A gesture might be more efficient than revealing the toolbar then
>>> > tapping Back. But I doubt it would be more discoverable.
>>> > 
>>> > - -- 
>>> > mpt
>>> > 
>>> > -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>> > Version: GnuPG v1.4.12 (GNU/Linux)
>>> > Comment: Using GnuPG with undefined - http://www.enigmail.net/
>>> > 
>>> > iEYEARECAAYFAlG57TEACgkQ6PUxNfU6ecoGzwCgo4vTTmdYlcLHYGnl0LQz71HC
>>> > eckAoI1i56T817vHSEfYS/WGBaHTkfV5
>>> > =s1ad
>>> > -----END PGP SIGNATURE-----
>>> > 
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