ubuntu-phone team mailing list archive
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ubuntu-phone team
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Message #02528
Re: Qt5 and touch performance issue
For apple, it's UI is much much better than anyone else back in 2007 around, some of my friends said they would never other phones any more. It's just so amazing. And the marketing/branding is so great that nokia is just like an old papa. It all thanks to Jobs.
For android, its success relies on smart marketing choice and rapid evolution. You see, back in 2007 around, Samsung, htc, motor and other small vendors don't have good choice for the mobile os. They can't use ios. Somehow they don't use symbian. Their own OSes are very poor. So google offers them a free, open source and great os, what can be better than that? At first, android is not so good, but it's evolving rapidly. And 2.3 is a break through. Now, with more powerful hardware, android can catch up with ios.
I don't have experience with developing apps. For a well-design system, UI is a just module. We can change it as we wish. For android, there're also several UI systems:HTC Sense 4.0, Motorola MOTO BLUR, Samsung TouchWiz UX, MIUI...If people love hardware/always-on-screen back button, then touch should have one also. Why not? If we want android app and touch app have the unique UI, just change it.
------------------ Original ------------------
From: "Alfred Neumayer"<dev.beidl@xxxxxxxxx>;
Date: Fri, Jun 21, 2013 10:11 PM
To: "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx>;
Cc: "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Qt5 and touch performance issue
How were Apple and Android successful if everything regular people used
up until the breakthrough of consumer touch devices were old-style
candy bar and clamshell dumb-phones?
I don't know how much experience you have with developing apps for
Android. I'm an Android app developer, and navigation WITHIN apps is
different from Ubuntu Touch.
Android: emphasis on the Action Bar and the new side-bar approach,
hardware/always-on-screen back button...
Also, multitasking has its quirks the way you can set different flags
for activities.
Ubuntu Touch: swipe gestures, tool bar, generally a more tab-based
approach, HUD etc.
I want Ubuntu Touch to be great (and I'm just an enthusiast).
That requires some understanding in how regular users interact with
devices. And regular users don't want to be overwhelmed by having apps
that always look and behave differently.
Being better than Android requires leaving its legacy behind and start
from scratch, that also implies: no Android compatibility layer by default.
You know what I kinds of apps I hate on Android? Those that look and
behave like iOS apps.
Am 2013-06-21 15:54, schrieb leon lee:
> If ways of navigation are completely different, then I would doubt how
> touch would be successful in the market. People are familiar with
> android and ios, how would people go choose one thing that's completely
> different, and with just a few apps. Unless touch is as innovative as
> ios in 2007, and the marketing people are as good as Jobs.
> I hope the marketing people have thought about this.
>
> ------------------ Original ------------------
> *From: * "Alfred Neumayer"<dev.beidl@xxxxxxxxx>;
> *Date: * Fri, Jun 21, 2013 09:22 PM
> *To: * "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
> *Subject: * Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Qt5 and touch performance issue
>
> You are making it sound easier than it actually is.
>
> The effort that would be required to have a decently working
> Android-compatibility layer is
> not worth the hassle IMO, since it would put us in the same category as
> Windows 8, where you have 2 completely different types of apps (Desktop
> & "Metro" apps : Ubuntu SDK & Android apps).
>
> I would not want to have 2 completely different types of apps with
> completely different ways of navigation and fundamental technical
> differences on my smart phone.
> What value does app compatibility bring if the user experience is crap?
>
> Am 2013-06-21 15:16, schrieb leon lee:
>> To merge two systems together, we need to know more about the ARCH of
>> both, or we would be lost. I think you must be very familiar with the
>> ARCH of touch, why not introduce it to us. Or show us where to find
>> the infomation.
>>
>>
>> ------------------ Original ------------------
>> *From: * "Thomas Vo "<thomas.voss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
>> *Date: * Fri, Jun 21, 2013 09:00 PM
>> *To: * "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx>;
>> *Cc: * "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
>> *Subject: * Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Qt5 and touch performance issue
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 2:52 PM, leon lee <llrraa@xxxxxx
>> <mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>> activity manager: like the name says, manage the activity, and
>> also some memory management.
>> When an activity starts, the activity manager would request
>> zygote( the mother of almost everything in android ) to fork a
>> thread, and then the activity manager manages this activity/thread.
>> When the activity stops, the thread is not killed. So next time
>> when the same activty is being started, the thread can be used for
>> it at once, so to save time. But when the memory is not enough,
>> the thread with no activity running would be killed first. This is
>> the major part of memory management.
>> So you can say activity manager just manages the thread, and this
>> should be the basic module of touch.
>> For android 2.3, the code locates in
>> framework/base/services/java/com/android/server/am/, in case you
>> want to look into it.
>>
>>
>> Content provider: from comment of ContentProvider.java:
>> Content providers are one of the primary building blocks of
>> Android applications, providing content to applications. They
>> encapsulate data and provide it to applications through the single
>> ContentResolver interface. A content provider is only required if
>> you need to share data between multiple applications. For example,
>> the contacts data is used by multiple applications and must be
>> stored in a content provider. If you don't need to share data
>> amongst multiple applications you can use a database directly via
>> android.database.sqlite.SQLiteDatabase.
>> For more information, read Content Providers.
>> When a request is made via a ContentResolver the system inspects
>> the authority of the given URI and passes the request to the
>> content provider registered with the authority. The content
>> provider can interpret the rest of the URI however it wants. The
>> UriMatcher class is helpful for parsing URIs.
>> leon: I think Content provider is just the abstract class for data
>> sharing between multiple applications, data like contacts.
>>
>> For android 2.3, the code locates in
>> frameworks/base/core/java/android/content/, in case you want to
>> look into it.
>> also:
>> http://grepcode.com/file/repository.grepcode.com/java/ext/com.google.android/android/2.3.4_r1/android/content/ContentProvider.java
>>
>>
>> Thanks for the summary, I'm aware of the purpose and the internals of
>> both ActivityManager and ContentProvider.
>>
>> Again, the level of detail we would require to get started is much
>> higher and I do not think that the approach of picking two components
>> at random and summarizing their \brief-documentation helps.
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>>
>> ------------------ Original ------------------
>> *From: * "Thomas Vo "<thomas.voss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:thomas.voss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>;
>> *Date: * Fri, Jun 21, 2013 07:17 PM
>> *To: * "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx <mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>>;
>> *Cc: * "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>;
>> *Subject: * Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Qt5 and touch performance issue
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 1:03 PM, leon lee <llrraa@xxxxxx
>> <mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>> If we look at the ARCH of android, I think we need change the
>> framwork, expecially activity manager, window manager, content
>> providers, view system. If touch has such an ARCH chart, it
>> would be easier to know what to do from the ARCH aspect.
>>
>>
>> We don't have an activity manager, content providers or a view
>> system (the latter is a toolkit btw, so roughly the equivalent of
>> Qt/QML & HTML5/JS). A window manager is there of course, but not
>> in the sense that android exposes it. As much as I'm a fan of
>> block diagrams, I'm afraid that we need to dive a lot deeper into
>> the details of the Android SDK to really map individual components.
>>
>> Again: Help with that is greatly appreciated :-)
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>>
>>
>> ------------------ Original ------------------
>> *From: * "Thomas Vo "<thomas.voss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:thomas.voss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>;
>> *Date: * Thu, Jun 20, 2013 11:18 PM
>> *To: * "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx <mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>>;
>> *Cc: * "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>;
>> *Subject: * Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Qt5 and touch performance issue
>>
>> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 4:53 PM, leon lee <llrraa@xxxxxx
>> <mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>> wrote:
>> > When I say make android dvm available on touch, I mean keep
>> the performance
>> > of touch, and make dvm adapted to touch. It means that we
>> will change the
>> > framwork of android. this would be much helpful for touch's
>> marketing.
>> > Don't worry about the "good enough" issue. The competition
>> of app companies
>> > is tense. If touch's app performs better, and some of the
>> companies would
>> > make use of it, and the others would have to follow up.
>> > Btw, why do I keep making new thread in the mailist?
>> >
>>
>> Let us assume Ubuntu Touch would want to support Android apps:
>>
>> Then we would not only need to pull in Dalvik (or an
>> equivalent that
>> might need a lot of optimization to fly on mobile cpus) in its
>> functionality as an interpreter, but also walk through the
>> complete
>> Android SDK & its class library and map all platform-specific
>> functionality down to the Ubuntu Touch platform. In essence,
>> we would
>> need to re-implement huge portions of the SDK and maintain it over
>> time, as both the Android SDK and the Ubuntu Touch platform
>> evolves.
>> While this is certainly doable from a technical perspective, I
>> think
>> that two major issues need to be considered here first:
>>
>> (1.) There will certainly be areas in the Android SDK that we
>> either
>> don't want or simply can't map to Ubuntu Touch.
>> (2.) The sheer size of the overall Android SDK.
>>
>> To address (1.) and (2.) we could start over with inspecting the
>> Android SDK and the class library and check for individual
>> namespaces/classes if there is an equivalent on Ubuntu Touch
>> that they
>> map to. If so, it would be quite interesting to know how
>> prominent the
>> component is for app developers in order to be able to
>> prioritize the
>> porting effort.
>>
>> Any help with this preliminary evaluation would be greatly
>> appreciated :)
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> Thomas
>>
>> > ------------------ Original ------------------
>> > From: "Josh Leverette"<coder543@xxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:coder543@xxxxxxxxx>>;
>> > Date: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 09:58 PM
>> > To: "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx <mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>>;
>> > Cc: "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>;
>> > Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone]Qt5 and touch performance issue
>> >
>> > If you ever want the system to perform smoothly, then we
>> must absolutely
>> > never officially support running Android apps on Ubuntu.
>> Additionally, it
>> > would be a death sentence for Ubuntu touch. Adding Android
>> app support would
>> > crush any chance of Ubuntu ever having good apps. When
>> companies see that
>> > their Android app on Ubuntu is "good enough", they will
>> never bother to make
>> > an "excellent" version for Ubuntu. But when the only option
>> is excellence,
>> > mediocrity is not encouraged. Ubuntu will suffer at first
>> because of this
>> > decision, but it will be stronger in the long run as a
>> result. "Delayed
>> > gratification" is another way to describe it.
>> >
>> > I agree that making the system smooth is very important, but
>> they are
>> > writing a new display server for Ubuntu touch. Until that is
>> finished, most
>> > time spent optimizing performance would be wasted. We must wait.
>> >
>> >
>> > On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 8:30 AM, leon lee <llrraa@xxxxxx
>> <mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> I still think the most important thing right now for touch
>> is to have a
>> >> reliable smoth system. For app, in the long term, we should
>> make android dvm
>> >> available on touch. So we can make use of all the android apps.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> ------------------ Original ------------------
>> >> From: "Josh Leverette"<coder543@xxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:coder543@xxxxxxxxx>>;
>> >> Date: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 09:45 AM
>> >> To: "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx <mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>>;
>> >> Cc: "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>;
>> >> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone]Qt5 and touch performance issue
>> >>
>> >> For now, features are most important. I hope that they will
>> start fixing
>> >> performance soon. The design is good. Performance should
>> not be an issue. If
>> >> it is, that would make me sad. I am confident that they
>> will fix it.
>> >>
>> >> Sincerely,
>> >> Josh
>> >>
>> >> On Jun 19, 2013 8:07 PM, "leon lee" <llrraa@xxxxxx
>> <mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> This would be the major issur of touch. Can we discuss
>> more details?
>> >>> Let's if there's something we can do.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> ------------------ Original ------------------
>> >>> From: "Josh Leverette"<coder543@xxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:coder543@xxxxxxxxx>>;
>> >>> Date: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 03:05 AM
>> >>> To: "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx <mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>>;
>> >>> Cc: "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>;
>> >>> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] how do you feel about touch
>> >>>
>> >>> It is based on Qt5, and Qt5 makes heavy use of GPU
>> acceleration. Right
>> >>> now there are a few performance issues, but I expect that
>> Ubuntu will run
>> >>> very smoothly once finished.
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 8:54 AM, leon <llrraa@xxxxxx
>> <mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>> wrote:
>> >>>>
>> >>>> After know the ARCH of android, which is using java as
>> the framework, I
>> >>>> feel a little disappointed. That means that with the
>> hardware, android won't
>> >>>> be as smooth as IOS, which is on the native framework.
>> >>>> From that day, I'm looking forward to a better android.
>> At first, I'm
>> >>>> thinking about the combination of android and meego, just
>> like what touch
>> >>>> does today. Luckly, I found touch, so I don't need to
>> move a long way to get
>> >>>> my goal.
>> >>>> Since I don't have a working touch handset, I hope people
>> using touch
>> >>>> can share your feeling with me. Would it be faster and
>> smoother with touch
>> >>>> than android?
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>>
>> >>>> --
>> >>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-phone>
>> >>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> >>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-phone>
>> >>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>> >>>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> --
>> >>> Sincerely,
>> >>> Josh
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > --
>> > Sincerely,
>> > Josh
>> >
>> > --
>> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-phone>
>> > Post to : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> <https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-phone>
>> > More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>> >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
