ubuntu-phone team mailing list archive
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ubuntu-phone team
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Message #02531
Re: Qt5 and touch performance issue
You can hate it, but don't take Instagram people as lazy people. That's the choice of marketing. People love ios. Maybe the designers of Instagram hate ios as much as you do, They just have to respect the market and do it.
------------------ Original ------------------
From: "Josh Leverette"<coder543@xxxxxxxxx>;
Date: Fri, Jun 21, 2013 10:13 PM
To: "Alfred Neumayer"<dev.beidl@xxxxxxxxx>;
Cc: "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx>; "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Qt5 and touch performance issue
I absolutely agree with this. I was upset at Instagram for the longest time because they lazily implemented an iOS nav scheme on my Android phone. They could easily have made it look and feel native, but they preferred to spend effort making an Android app look like iOS.
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 9:11 AM, Alfred Neumayer <dev.beidl@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
How were Apple and Android successful if everything regular people used up until the breakthrough of consumer touch devices were old-style
candy bar and clamshell dumb-phones?
I don't know how much experience you have with developing apps for Android. I'm an Android app developer, and navigation WITHIN apps is different from Ubuntu Touch.
Android: emphasis on the Action Bar and the new side-bar approach, hardware/always-on-screen back button...
Also, multitasking has its quirks the way you can set different flags for activities.
Ubuntu Touch: swipe gestures, tool bar, generally a more tab-based approach, HUD etc.
I want Ubuntu Touch to be great (and I'm just an enthusiast).
That requires some understanding in how regular users interact with devices. And regular users don't want to be overwhelmed by having apps that always look and behave differently.
Being better than Android requires leaving its legacy behind and start from scratch, that also implies: no Android compatibility layer by default.
You know what I kinds of apps I hate on Android? Those that look and behave like iOS apps.
Am 2013-06-21 15:54, schrieb leon lee:
If ways of navigation are completely different, then I would doubt how
touch would be successful in the market. People are familiar with
android and ios, how would people go choose one thing that's completely
different, and with just a few apps. Unless touch is as innovative as
ios in 2007, and the marketing people are as good as Jobs.
I hope the marketing people have thought about this.
------------------ Original ------------------
*From: * "Alfred Neumayer"<dev.beidl@xxxxxxxxx>;
*Date: * Fri, Jun 21, 2013 09:22 PM
*To: * "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
*Subject: * Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Qt5 and touch performance issue
You are making it sound easier than it actually is.
The effort that would be required to have a decently working
Android-compatibility layer is
not worth the hassle IMO, since it would put us in the same category as
Windows 8, where you have 2 completely different types of apps (Desktop
& "Metro" apps : Ubuntu SDK & Android apps).
I would not want to have 2 completely different types of apps with
completely different ways of navigation and fundamental technical
differences on my smart phone.
What value does app compatibility bring if the user experience is crap?
Am 2013-06-21 15:16, schrieb leon lee:
To merge two systems together, we need to know more about the ARCH of
both, or we would be lost. I think you must be very familiar with the
ARCH of touch, why not introduce it to us. Or show us where to find
the infomation.
------------------ Original ------------------
*From: * "Thomas Vo "<thomas.voss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
*Date: * Fri, Jun 21, 2013 09:00 PM
*To: * "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx>;
*Cc: * "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
*Subject: * Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Qt5 and touch performance issue
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 2:52 PM, leon lee <llrraa@xxxxxx
<mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>> wrote:
activity manager: like the name says, manage the activity, and
also some memory management.
When an activity starts, the activity manager would request
zygote( the mother of almost everything in android ) to fork a
thread, and then the activity manager manages this activity/thread.
When the activity stops, the thread is not killed. So next time
when the same activty is being started, the thread can be used for
it at once, so to save time. But when the memory is not enough,
the thread with no activity running would be killed first. This is
the major part of memory management.
So you can say activity manager just manages the thread, and this
should be the basic module of touch.
For android 2.3, the code locates in
framework/base/services/java/com/android/server/am/, in case you
want to look into it.
Content provider: from comment of ContentProvider.java:
Content providers are one of the primary building blocks of
Android applications, providing content to applications. They
encapsulate data and provide it to applications through the single
ContentResolver interface. A content provider is only required if
you need to share data between multiple applications. For example,
the contacts data is used by multiple applications and must be
stored in a content provider. If you don't need to share data
amongst multiple applications you can use a database directly via
android.database.sqlite.SQLiteDatabase.
For more information, read Content Providers.
When a request is made via a ContentResolver the system inspects
the authority of the given URI and passes the request to the
content provider registered with the authority. The content
provider can interpret the rest of the URI however it wants. The
UriMatcher class is helpful for parsing URIs.
leon: I think Content provider is just the abstract class for data
sharing between multiple applications, data like contacts.
For android 2.3, the code locates in
frameworks/base/core/java/android/content/, in case you want to
look into it.
also:
http://grepcode.com/file/repository.grepcode.com/java/ext/com.google.android/android/2.3.4_r1/android/content/ContentProvider.java
Thanks for the summary, I'm aware of the purpose and the internals of
both ActivityManager and ContentProvider.
Again, the level of detail we would require to get started is much
higher and I do not think that the approach of picking two components
at random and summarizing their \brief-documentation helps.
Thanks,
Thomas
------------------ Original ------------------
*From: * "Thomas Vo "<thomas.voss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:thomas.voss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>;
*Date: * Fri, Jun 21, 2013 07:17 PM
*To: * "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx <mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>>;
*Cc: * "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>;
*Subject: * Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Qt5 and touch performance issue
On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 1:03 PM, leon lee <llrraa@xxxxxx
<mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>> wrote:
If we look at the ARCH of android, I think we need change the
framwork, expecially activity manager, window manager, content
providers, view system. If touch has such an ARCH chart, it
would be easier to know what to do from the ARCH aspect.
We don't have an activity manager, content providers or a view
system (the latter is a toolkit btw, so roughly the equivalent of
Qt/QML & HTML5/JS). A window manager is there of course, but not
in the sense that android exposes it. As much as I'm a fan of
block diagrams, I'm afraid that we need to dive a lot deeper into
the details of the Android SDK to really map individual components.
Again: Help with that is greatly appreciated :-)
Thanks,
Thomas
------------------ Original ------------------
*From: * "Thomas Vo "<thomas.voss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:thomas.voss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>;
*Date: * Thu, Jun 20, 2013 11:18 PM
*To: * "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx <mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>>;
*Cc: * "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>;
*Subject: * Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Qt5 and touch performance issue
On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 4:53 PM, leon lee <llrraa@xxxxxx
<mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>> wrote:
> When I say make android dvm available on touch, I mean keep
the performance
> of touch, and make dvm adapted to touch. It means that we
will change the
> framwork of android. this would be much helpful for touch's
marketing.
> Don't worry about the "good enough" issue. The competition
of app companies
> is tense. If touch's app performs better, and some of the
companies would
> make use of it, and the others would have to follow up.
> Btw, why do I keep making new thread in the mailist?
>
Let us assume Ubuntu Touch would want to support Android apps:
Then we would not only need to pull in Dalvik (or an
equivalent that
might need a lot of optimization to fly on mobile cpus) in its
functionality as an interpreter, but also walk through the
complete
Android SDK & its class library and map all platform-specific
functionality down to the Ubuntu Touch platform. In essence,
we would
need to re-implement huge portions of the SDK and maintain it over
time, as both the Android SDK and the Ubuntu Touch platform
evolves.
While this is certainly doable from a technical perspective, I
think
that two major issues need to be considered here first:
(1.) There will certainly be areas in the Android SDK that we
either
don't want or simply can't map to Ubuntu Touch.
(2.) The sheer size of the overall Android SDK.
To address (1.) and (2.) we could start over with inspecting the
Android SDK and the class library and check for individual
namespaces/classes if there is an equivalent on Ubuntu Touch
that they
map to. If so, it would be quite interesting to know how
prominent the
component is for app developers in order to be able to
prioritize the
porting effort.
Any help with this preliminary evaluation would be greatly
appreciated :)
Thanks,
Thomas
> ------------------ Original ------------------
> From: "Josh Leverette"<coder543@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:coder543@xxxxxxxxx>>;
> Date: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 09:58 PM
> To: "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx <mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>>;
> Cc: "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>;
> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone]Qt5 and touch performance issue
>
> If you ever want the system to perform smoothly, then we
must absolutely
> never officially support running Android apps on Ubuntu.
Additionally, it
> would be a death sentence for Ubuntu touch. Adding Android
app support would
> crush any chance of Ubuntu ever having good apps. When
companies see that
> their Android app on Ubuntu is "good enough", they will
never bother to make
> an "excellent" version for Ubuntu. But when the only option
is excellence,
> mediocrity is not encouraged. Ubuntu will suffer at first
because of this
> decision, but it will be stronger in the long run as a
result. "Delayed
> gratification" is another way to describe it.
>
> I agree that making the system smooth is very important, but
they are
> writing a new display server for Ubuntu touch. Until that is
finished, most
> time spent optimizing performance would be wasted. We must wait.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 8:30 AM, leon lee <llrraa@xxxxxx
<mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>> I still think the most important thing right now for touch
is to have a
>> reliable smoth system. For app, in the long term, we should
make android dvm
>> available on touch. So we can make use of all the android apps.
>>
>>
>> ------------------ Original ------------------
>> From: "Josh Leverette"<coder543@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:coder543@xxxxxxxxx>>;
>> Date: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 09:45 AM
>> To: "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx <mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>>;
>> Cc: "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>;
>> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone]Qt5 and touch performance issue
>>
>> For now, features are most important. I hope that they will
start fixing
>> performance soon. The design is good. Performance should
not be an issue. If
>> it is, that would make me sad. I am confident that they
will fix it.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Josh
>>
>> On Jun 19, 2013 8:07 PM, "leon lee" <llrraa@xxxxxx
<mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>
>>> This would be the major issur of touch. Can we discuss
more details?
>>> Let's if there's something we can do.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------ Original ------------------
>>> From: "Josh Leverette"<coder543@xxxxxxxxx
<mailto:coder543@xxxxxxxxx>>;
>>> Date: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 03:05 AM
>>> To: "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx <mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>>;
>>> Cc: "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>;
>>> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] how do you feel about touch
>>>
>>> It is based on Qt5, and Qt5 makes heavy use of GPU
acceleration. Right
>>> now there are a few performance issues, but I expect that
Ubuntu will run
>>> very smoothly once finished.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 8:54 AM, leon <llrraa@xxxxxx
<mailto:llrraa@xxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> After know the ARCH of android, which is using java as
the framework, I
>>>> feel a little disappointed. That means that with the
hardware, android won't
>>>> be as smooth as IOS, which is on the native framework.
>>>> From that day, I'm looking forward to a better android.
At first, I'm
>>>> thinking about the combination of android and meego, just
like what touch
>>>> does today. Luckly, I found touch, so I don't need to
move a long way to get
>>>> my goal.
>>>> Since I don't have a working touch handset, I hope people
using touch
>>>> can share your feeling with me. Would it be faster and
smoother with touch
>>>> than android?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
<https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-phone>
>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
<mailto:ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
<https://launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-phone>
>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Josh
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Josh
>
> --
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--
Sincerely,
Josh
