ubuntu-phone team mailing list archive

["Fola Dawodu Esq." <folabiklan@xxxxxxxxx>]

Oh. You are back.

Well we are working hard on your droid emulator.  

Check back next week. 

Thank you


Sent from Outer Space

-------- Original message --------
From: leon lee <llrraa@xxxxxx> 
Date: 22/06/2013  16:11  (GMT+01:00) 
To: Josh Leverette <coder543@xxxxxxxxx> 
Cc: ubuntu-phone <ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> 
Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Qt5 and touch performance issue 
 
Before people looking at that quick first boot tutorial screen, tell us why would people choose touch when they already have android or ios. People simply don't change unless there's some reason. If you have marketing experience, you would know that. If touch doesn't care about marketing share, that would be another story.
I never say it's an easy job to support Android apps. But it seems to be a shortcut for touch to gain the marketing share. Also I say right now the most important thing is to have a smooth reliable system. Without a stable system, it's no use to support Android apps.
Third, I didn't say Android emulator is my idea. How can we get more effecient with an Android emulator?

------------------ Original ------------------
From:  "Josh Leverette"<coder543@xxxxxxxxx>;
Date:  Fri, Jun 21, 2013 10:03 PM
To:  "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx>;
Cc:  "Alfred Neumayer"<dev.beidl@xxxxxxxxx>; "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
Subject:  Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Qt5 and touch performance issue

Navigation being different from Android and iOS will not be an issue -- a quick first boot tutorial screen can explain it easily enough. The lack of apps is far more threatening, but supporting Android apps simply is not an option. Even if it were a good idea, it still isn't an option. You don't realize how large of an undertaking it would be, and how poor the result would be. All of the engineering talent wasted on making a poor Android emulator for Ubuntu would then cause the rest of the operating system to be of even poorer quality since no one would have time to work on that if they're going to finish the emulator in time. That's a gambit you're not going to recover from. If you think it is so easy, that's why you're free to develop it, but you'll quickly find out on your own that it isn't a good idea.


On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 8:54 AM, leon lee <llrraa@xxxxxx> wrote:
If ways of navigation are completely different, then I would doubt how touch would be successful in the market. People are familiar with android and ios, how would people go choose one thing that's completely different, and with just a few apps. Unless touch is as innovative as ios in 2007, and the marketing people are as good as Jobs.
I hope the marketing people have thought about this.

------------------ Original ------------------
From: "Alfred Neumayer"<dev.beidl@xxxxxxxxx>;
Date: Fri, Jun 21, 2013 09:22 PM
To: "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Qt5 and touch performance issue

You are making it sound easier than it actually is.

The effort that would be required to have a decently working Android-compatibility layer is
not worth the hassle IMO, since it would put us in the same category as Windows 8, where you have 2 completely different types of apps (Desktop & "Metro" apps : Ubuntu SDK & Android apps).

I would not want to have 2 completely different types of apps with completely different ways of navigation and fundamental technical     differences on my smart phone.
What value does app compatibility bring if the user experience is crap?

Am 2013-06-21 15:16, schrieb leon lee:
To merge two systems together, we need to know more about the ARCH of both, or we would be lost. I think you must be very familiar with the ARCH of touch, why not introduce it to us. Or show us where to find the infomation.


------------------ Original ------------------
From: "Thomas Vo "<thomas.voss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
Date: Fri, Jun 21, 2013 09:00 PM
To: "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx>;
Cc: "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Qt5 and touch performance issue




On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 2:52 PM, leon lee <llrraa@xxxxxx> wrote:
activity manager: like the name says, manage the activity, and also some memory management.
When an activity starts, the activity manager would request zygote( the mother of almost everything in android ) to fork a thread, and then the activity manager manages this activity/thread.
When the activity stops, the thread is not killed. So next time when the same activty is being started, the thread can be used for it at once, so to save time. But when the memory is not enough, the thread with no activity running would be killed first. This is the major part of memory management.
So you can say activity manager just manages the thread, and this should be the basic module of touch.
For android 2.3, the code locates in framework/base/services/java/com/android/server/am/, in case you want to look into it.


Content provider: from comment of ContentProvider.java:
Content providers are one of the primary building blocks of Android applications, providing content to applications. They encapsulate data and provide it to applications through the single ContentResolver interface. A content provider is only required if you need to share data between multiple applications. For example, the contacts data is used                     by multiple applications and must be stored in a content provider. If you don't need to share data amongst multiple applications you can use a database directly via android.database.sqlite.SQLiteDatabase.
For more information, read Content Providers.
When a request is made via a ContentResolver the system inspects the authority of the given URI and passes the request to the content provider registered with the authority. The content provider can interpret the rest of the URI however it wants. The UriMatcher class is helpful for parsing URIs.
leon: I think Content provider is just the abstract class for data sharing between multiple applications, data like contacts.

For android 2.3, the code locates in frameworks/base/core/java/android/content/, in case you want to look into it.
also: http://grepcode.com/file/repository.grepcode.com/java/ext/com.google.android/android/2.3.4_r1/android/content/ContentProvider.java


Thanks for the summary, I'm aware of the purpose and the internals of both ActivityManager and ContentProvider.

Again, the level of detail we would require to get started is much higher and I do not think that the approach of picking two components at random and summarizing their \brief-documentation helps.

Thanks,

Thomas


------------------ Original ------------------
From: "Thomas Vo "<thomas.voss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
Date: Fri, Jun 21, 2013 07:17 PM
To: "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx>;                      
Cc: "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Qt5 and touch performance issue




On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 1:03 PM, leon lee <llrraa@xxxxxx> wrote:
If we look at the ARCH of android, I think we need change the framwork, expecially activity manager, window manager, content providers, view system. If touch has such an ARCH chart, it would be easier to know what to do from the ARCH aspect.

We don't have an activity manager, content providers or a view system (the latter is a toolkit btw, so roughly the equivalent of Qt/QML & HTML5/JS). A window manager is there of course, but not in the sense that android exposes it. As much as I'm a fan of block diagrams, I'm afraid that we need to dive a lot deeper into the details of the Android SDK to really map individual components.

Again: Help with that is greatly appreciated :-)

Thanks,

Thomas



------------------ Original ------------------
From: "Thomas Vo "<thomas.voss@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
Date: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 11:18 PM
To: "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx>;
Cc: "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;
Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Qt5 and touch performance issue

On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 4:53 PM, leon lee <llrraa@xxxxxx> wrote:
> When I say make android dvm available on touch, I mean keep the performance
> of touch, and make dvm adapted to touch. It means that we will change                                   the
> framwork of android. this would                                   be much helpful for touch's marketing.
> Don't worry about the "good enough" issue. The competition of app companies
> is tense. If touch's app performs better, and some of the companies would
> make use of it, and the others would have to follow up.
> Btw, why do I keep making new thread in the mailist?
>

Let us assume Ubuntu Touch would want to support Android apps:

Then we would not only need to pull in Dalvik (or an equivalent that
might need a lot of optimization to fly on mobile cpus) in its
functionality as an interpreter, but also walk through the complete
Android SDK & its class library and map all platform-specific
functionality down to the Ubuntu Touch platform. In essence, we would
need to re-implement huge portions of the SDK and maintain it over
time, as both the Android SDK and the Ubuntu Touch platform evolves.
While this is certainly doable from a technical perspective, I think
that two major issues need to be considered here first:

(1.) There will certainly be areas in the Android SDK that we either
don't want or simply can't map to Ubuntu Touch.
(2.) The sheer size of the overall Android SDK.

To address (1.) and (2.) we could start over with inspecting the
Android SDK and the class library and check for individual
namespaces/classes if there is an equivalent on Ubuntu Touch that they
map to. If so, it would be quite interesting to know how prominent the
component is for app developers in order to be able to prioritize the
porting effort.

Any help with this preliminary evaluation would be greatly appreciated :)

Thanks,

Thomas

> ------------------ Original ------------------
> From: "Josh Leverette"<coder543@xxxxxxxxx>;

> Date: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 09:58 PM
> To: "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx>;
> Cc: "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;

> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone]Qt5 and touch performance issue
>
> If you ever want the system to perform smoothly, then we must absolutely
> never officially support running Android apps on Ubuntu. Additionally, it
> would be a death sentence for Ubuntu touch. Adding Android app support would
> crush any chance of Ubuntu ever having good apps. When companies see that
> their Android app on Ubuntu is "good enough", they will never bother to make
> an "excellent" version for Ubuntu. But when the only option is excellence,
> mediocrity is not encouraged. Ubuntu will suffer at first because of this
> decision, but it will be stronger in the long run as a result. "Delayed
> gratification" is another way to describe it.
>
> I agree that making the system                                     smooth is very important, but they                                     are
> writing a new display server for Ubuntu touch. Until that is finished, most
> time spent optimizing performance would be wasted. We must wait.
>
>
> On Thu, Jun 20, 2013 at 8:30 AM, leon lee <llrraa@xxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> I still think the most important thing right now for touch is to have a
>> reliable smoth system. For app, in the long term, we should make android dvm
>> available on touch. So we can make use of all the android apps.
>>
>>
>> ------------------ Original ------------------
>> From: "Josh Leverette"<coder543@xxxxxxxxx>;

>> Date: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 09:45 AM
>> To: "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx>;
>> Cc: "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;

>> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone]Qt5 and touch performance issue
>>
>> For now, features are most important. I hope that they will start fixing
>> performance soon. The design is good. Performance should not be an issue. If
>> it is, that would make me sad. I am confident that they will fix it.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Josh
>>
>> On Jun 19, 2013 8:07 PM, "leon lee" <llrraa@xxxxxx> wrote:
>>>
>>> This would be the major issur of touch. Can we discuss more details?
>>> Let's if there's something we can do.
>>>
>>>
>>> ------------------ Original ------------------
>>> From: "Josh Leverette"<coder543@xxxxxxxxx>;

>>> Date: Thu, Jun 20, 2013 03:05 AM
>>> To: "leon lee"<llrraa@xxxxxx>;
>>> Cc: "ubuntu-phone"<ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>;

>>> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] how do you feel about touch
>>>
>>> It is based on Qt5, and Qt5 makes heavy use of GPU acceleration. Right
>>> now there are a few performance issues, but I expect                                     that Ubuntu will run
>>> very smoothly once finished.
>>>
>>>
>>> On Wed, Jun 19, 2013 at 8:54 AM, leon <llrraa@xxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>> After know the ARCH of android, which is using java as the framework, I
>>>> feel a little disappointed. That means that with the hardware, android won't
>>>> be as smooth as IOS, which is on the native framework.
>>>> From that day, I'm looking forward to a better android. At first, I'm
>>>> thinking about the combination of android and meego, just like what touch
>>>> does today. Luckly, I found touch, so I don't need to move a long way to get
>>>> my goal.
>>>> Since I don't have a working touch handset, I hope people using touch
>>>> can share your feeling with me. Would it be faster and smoother with touch
>>>> than android?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>> Post to : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Sincerely,
>>> Josh
>
>
>
>
> --
> Sincerely,
> Josh
>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>






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-- 
Sincerely,
Josh