ubuntu-phone team mailing list archive

[Zisu Andrei <matzipan@xxxxxxxxx>]

>
> I would really like to see Ubuntu on phones succeed, but if the main phone
> interface is apps interfacing with the system with javascript on webkit

That is basically true for the web browser. You have webapps, which have a
a few ways of basically hooking into the native UI, but that's the only way
that you can interact from HTML+Javascript with the system.

Then there are the native apps with basically a C++ backend with a
QML+Javascript front end. I would say QML has nothing to do with HTML, so
you can't really say webOS, Firefox OS and Ubuntu are on the same par.

Add to this the confusion of using the standard GTK+ Python/C applications
> for the desktop when plugged into a screen, but *not* using it for
> mobile, would seem to be the opposite of "Unity".

The GTK interface on the desktop is going away in 14.04 (the converging
version, aka one interface to rule them all), and there will be only Qt
based interfaces.

 Will Ubuntu-phone have Firefox as the default desktop browser, but a
> separate webkit browser when you unplug it from keyboard and monitor?

I think that part of the plan has not been completely layed out. The main
problem right now is that Firefox might not have the man-time and
priorities to do this, as they are moving their engineering efforts into
their Firefox OS and also that their design ideas might not be the same as
Canonical's. It's basically faster to keep it in-house, to meet the
deadline for 13.10 with Ubuntu Phone. I am guessing since the mobile
browser is based on webkit, and the desktop browser is Chromium, the gap is
not that big now.

The same with the email client.

So while now Ubuntu is kind of using Gnome applications + Firefox +
Evolution, in the future, the apps will be Qt based maintained by Canonical.





Zisu Andrei


On 23 June 2013 02:30, Josh Leverette <coder543@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> QML allowing the business logic to be driven using JavaScript does not in
> any way imply that the UI is based on WebKit, which it very much is not.
> It's a regular ui toolkit like GTK. Even Gnome Shell is written in
> JavaScript, but it isn't HTML or anything. Chromium will be the default
> browser on Ubuntu, henceforth, as I understand it. WebKit on mobile and
> desktop then. Firefox is still not proven to be any better than WebKit
> based browsers for general browsing, so I'm ignoring that assertion.
> Logically, the Ubuntu touch mail client will likely replace Evolution by
> Ubuntu 14.04. Hopefully this addresses some of the questions you may have,
> but things may not pan out exactly like this, of course.
>
> Sincerely,
> Josh
> On Jun 22, 2013 8:22 PM, "Luke Bryan" <luke32j@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>
>> I would really like to see Ubuntu on phones succeed, but if the main
>> phone interface is apps interfacing with the system with javascript on
>> webkit, I wonder how is this much different than going the way of webOS?
>> From what I understand, there will now be *three* different platforms in
>> the near future that are basically javascript + chrome-privileged code
>> javascript: webOS, Ubuntu+QML, and Firefox OS.
>>
>> Add to this the confusion of using the standard GTK+ Python/C
>> applications for the desktop when plugged into a screen, but *not* using
>> it for mobile, would seem to be the opposite of "Unity". Will Ubuntu-phone
>> have Firefox as the default desktop browser, but a separate webkit browser
>> when you unplug it from keyboard and monitor? Evolution/Thunderbird mail
>> when in desktop mode, but a completely different client when mobile? Maybe
>> I'm misunderstanding the development model of Ubuntu-touch, I certainly
>> hope this would not be the case.
>>
>> I see why Webkit might be considered the best in some circumstances,
>> considering the integrations into GTK, QT, & others. I have written an app
>> embedding a webkit view as the main panel in GTK, it works well, but
>> Firefox is still (in most cases) the best general web browser, and the
>> default on Ubuntu. I do hope this won't lead to more fragmentation of
>> Linux, even within Ubuntu.
>>
>> best wishes
>> Luke
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Fri, 21 Jun 2013 10:38:43 +0200
>> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] browser does not support webgl
>> From: larsgk@xxxxxxxxx
>> To: luke32j@xxxxxxx
>> CC: coder543@xxxxxxxxx; ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>> WebKit (and now Blink) cover >85% of the mobile browser use - while
>> Firefox seems to be slightly lower (0.01% .. maybe not 100% accurate - but
>> pretty far from WebKit in usage %'age)
>>
>> 1. Any mobile WebApps developer today will target iOS and Android first.
>>  Having a technology that is sharing the code base (qtwebkit) gives a good
>> starting point to make sure webapps are also compatible with Ubuntu Phone
>> 2. Firefox with their upcoming "FirefoxOS" seem to be pushing a LOT of
>> specs - and not all of them make sense .. but they have to be ready for
>> launch (it seems) so there is not much time to "waste" taking a holistic
>> look at the specs to see if they all make sense.  You can be sure that both
>> WebKit/Apple and Blink/Google will *not* blindly implement these things if
>> they don't make 100% sense to them.
>>
>> I also like Firefox - and it's nice with competition .. but it would not
>> make much sense to select FF as the primary web platform on an OS that
>> *also* has to prove itself with the operators and phone manufacturers
>> before any kind of market penetration can happen.  Selecting WebKit (and
>> potentially Blink later - depends on how that develops) as the base of the
>> core web engine (browser and webview for dedicated apps) over FF can't have
>> been a hard choice to make for Ubuntu ;)
>>
>> br
>> Lars
>>
>> For reference:
>>
>> Mobile/Tablet Browser Market Share (source:
>> http://www.netmarketshare.com/)
>> May, 2013
>> Browser Total Market Share
>> Safari 59.98%
>> Android Browser 20.73%
>> Opera Mini 10.53%
>> Chrome 3.22%
>> Microsoft Internet Explorer 1.97%
>> BlackBerry 1.02%
>> Proprietary or Undetectable 0.52%
>> Symbian 0.50%
>> Opera Mobile 0.40%
>> Opera 0.14%
>> ACCESS NetFront 0.06%
>> Mozilla 0.01%
>> Firefox 0.01%
>> Obigo 0.01%
>> Microsoft Pocket Internet Explorer 0.00%
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Jun 21, 2013 at 5:58 AM, Luke Bryan <luke32j@xxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> In my opinion webkit would be a fairly buggy base for a JS+QML interface.
>> Even the jQuery folks have said there are more workarounds in their code
>> for odd webkit behavior than other browsers. Mozilla technology is already
>> making great leaps in the os integration area (Boot2gecko, asm.js which
>> optimizes js up to around half the speed of native), which would be very
>> beneficial in a web/javascript app-centered OS.
>>
>> I do hope Ubuntu phone will be able to run Firefox, or at least the
>> Android version of Firefox?
>>
>> Best wishes
>> Luke
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 20:06:27 -0500
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] browser does not support webgl
>> From: coder543@xxxxxxxxx
>> To: luke32j@xxxxxxx
>> CC: ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>
>>
>> WebKit is rapidly becoming the standard for the internet, and I'm not
>> sure what quirks you're talking about. However, if they're developing their
>> own browser, then by definition it cannot be Firefox. If someone develops
>> an alternative browser, nothing will stop you from using it.
>>
>> Right now, no one offers Firefox for mobile through the Ubuntu UI, so
>> making it even optional would prove to be extremely difficult.
>>
>> Sincerely,
>> Josh
>>  Please don't tell me default web browser is webkit?
>> Won't Firefox be default, or at least have an option to install Firefox
>> on the Ubuntu-phone, like the desktop Ubuntu? I've had enough experiences
>> trying to track down weird webkit quirks that I would prefer not to use it
>> exclusively on a phone.
>>
>> Best regards,
>> Luke
>>
>> ------------------------------
>> Date: Thu, 20 Jun 2013 18:25:59 -0400
>> From: pat.mcgowan@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> To: ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] browser does not support webgl
>>
>> On 06/20/2013 05:07 PM, Zisu Andrei wrote:
>>
>> I'm not sure webkit linux supports webgl.
>>
>>  Zisu Andrei
>>
>> This report seems pertinent, will look into it further.
>> Pat
>> https://bugreports.qt-project.org/browse/QTBUG-30405
>>
>>
>>
>> On 20 June 2013 20:39, Wim de Vries <wsvries@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> Hi,
>> Just tested the Web browser on WebGL ... no support.
>> Is there a reason for this?
>> I would say a basic feature for mobiles.
>>
>> Thanks.
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to     : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone Post to :
>> ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Unsubscribe :
>> https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone More help :
>> https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to     : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to     : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> Post to     : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
> --
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> Post to     : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>