ubuntu-phone team mailing list archive

[Josh Leverette <coder543@xxxxxxxxx>]

I'm not talking about putting this on a 7" tablet. You haven't been
listening to me.

There are three form factors.
-Desktop
-Tablet
-Phone

We know what the tablet and phone Unity8 interfaces look like. We do not
know what Unity8 for desktop will look like. There *will* be a version of
it for desktop. That is not a question. The 20" tablet that is being
discussed should run the desktop version of the interface because it is too
large for the tablet interface to scale properly to it. The desktop
interface is the appropriate choice regardless of whether the tablet is
docked in to the AIO dock or the tablet is freestanding. It doesn't matter.
It should always run the desktop interface because of how large it is. The
desktop interface is different only by the fact that it has windows in it.
I'm not changing anything there. It will be able to run the tablet apps. It
will be able to run the phone apps. It will be able to run the legacy apps.
A 7" tablet will of course run the tablet interface, not the desktop
interface with a windowing interface.

I never suggested that we change the tablet interface to use windows or be
a desktop interface. I suggested that this special case use the desktop
interface exclusively, instead of the tablet interface.
On Jul 20, 2013 5:34 PM, "Rasmus Eneman" <Rasmus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> All of those things are stuff you can do on the desktop interface.
> Why wold it be so much better to do that on the Tablet interface?
>
> >-you can still maximize them to run them fullscreen, if you like
> It isn't about that. It is about that you fundamentally would like to
> change how the current interface works. You cant just add in multi
> window.
> You need a way to maximize/minimize windows, usually you do that
> using buttons on a tool bar. By adding a tool bar that is always visible
> you loose valuable screen space on a 7" tablet.
> And also you would have to teach users how the multi windows
> features work.
>
> What I'm saying is that if you want the desktop interface you should
> use the desktop interface, you shouldn't make the tablet interface
> become the desktop interface. You can run the touch apps in the
> desktop interface aswell.
>
>
> 2013/7/21 Josh Leverette <coder543@xxxxxxxxx>
>
>> Interacting with it as a tablet does not limit you to running one
>> application as a time. LibreOffice and Eclipse may not be optimized for
>> touch, but you could still run all of the touch optimized apps. Running
>> them in windows you can move around would not be something to fear. It
>> would be useful. If you *want* to run a nontouch optimized app, that's your
>> problem. Having window management *will* happen regardless, for traditional
>> desktops. Letting you use it on a 20" tablet would just be a good decision.
>>
>> -Desktop mode means you can run several touch optimized apps side by side
>> -you optionally can run legacy, real-work applications like Eclipse
>> -you can still maximize them to run them fullscreen, if you like
>>
>> Any suffering would be self inflicted. There is no downside, and an OSK
>> can be used for anything. On my android tablet I have a keyboard designed
>> for programming, and I've written code swiftly. A larger screen would be
>> even better. I've written documents that are dozens of pages long on a
>> touchscreen. To someone who is practiced with them, it's a breeze. Don't
>> insult touchscreen interfaces just because you're not efficient with them.
>>  On Jul 20, 2013 5:12 PM, "Rasmus Eneman" <Rasmus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>>> >Why would that be useful?
>>> Because you are still interacting with it like a tablet, with touch.
>>> Advanced interfaces like LibreOffice or Eclipse wouldn't work
>>>  not because of the screen size but because of the input type.
>>> And if you wants to use desktop applications, why wouldn't
>>> you just use the desktop interface? The applications wouldn't
>>> be easier to interact with just because the interface of the
>>> desktop manager were fitted for touch.
>>>
>>> OSK is worthless for programming or writing documents, even if the
>>> screen is 20".
>>>
>>> You can't just add in multi-windows and totally change how you would
>>> interact with the only argument being "It's BIG!". The input is still as
>>> equally limited and broken for desktop interfaces.
>>>
>>> And no, in isn't Windows 8 all over again. Windows 8 is putting a tablet
>>> interface on the desktop. Unity is putting a tablet interface on a
>>> tablet and
>>> a desktop interface on a desktop.
>>>
>>> Without writing usecases for massive changes you are doing changes
>>> for the sake of changing stuff, probably to the worse. Before you go in
>>> and totally change how one interface would work you need to have a
>>> very clear plan of what you are doing and why you are doing that.
>>> The latter part of that is why use cases would need to be written.
>>>
>>>
>>> 2013/7/20 Josh Leverette <coder543@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>
>>>> On a large display, there is very rarely enough content to use the
>>>> whole screen. If you're using a 20" tablet, it's not for pleasure. It needs
>>>> to use multiple windows. This applies to the keyboard as well. The keyboard
>>>> would be too large to type on if you just stretched it out to a 20" screen.
>>>> Why do you need to write a use case? This use case is plainly obvious. It
>>>> would be wasteful to only allow one application on the screen at a time for
>>>> large screens. Even the side stage isn't enough. It would be Windows 8 all
>>>> over again to do that. Besides, we need to support the legacy applications
>>>> like LibreOffice, and Eclipse.
>>>>
>>>> Why do you want a single application to fill the whole screen at all
>>>> times? Why would that be useful?
>>>> On Jul 20, 2013 4:50 PM, "Rasmus Eneman" <Rasmus@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> The thing is, when you are using a tablet inteface. How would you
>>>>> intercat with multiple windows?
>>>>> We shouldn't add features just for the sake of features, if so we
>>>>> would still be using the terminal
>>>>> only as it's the only (yet?) invented interface that can do anything.
>>>>> We don't want that
>>>>> we want an interface that simple and easy to navigate if it looks good
>>>>> that would be a bonus.
>>>>> To do this we have to say, "this feature should be in because it's
>>>>> needed and works". Not just
>>>>> "this feature looks cool, lets add it".
>>>>>
>>>>> Could someone write some good use cases for a multi window/more
>>>>> advanced side stage?
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> 2013/7/20 Josh Leverette <coder543@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>>
>>>>>> I still don't understand. Why do you want to go into tablet mode,
>>>>>> since that only means everything is fullscreen, as far as we know. You can
>>>>>> still maximize things and then they're essentially fullscreen, if that's
>>>>>> what you want, but realistically.. why would you on a large screen?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Sincerely,
>>>>>> Josh
>>>>>> On Jul 20, 2013 1:49 PM, "Omar B." <estelar57@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> hmm, I believe we need to think more about the applications and
>>>>>>> connected peripherals, than the desktop itself.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> On the ASUS Transformer AiO, when the screen gets detached, it
>>>>>>> surely becomes a big Tablet.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> So, I assume it will go from desktop mode to tablet mode (with
>>>>>>> probably a possibility of manual override).
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> In such big tablet form factors I see the usefulness of
>>>>>>> multi-window, re-sizing or a more feature-rich side stage being introduced
>>>>>>> to the touch environment.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> ------------------------------
>>>>>>> Date: Fri, 19 Jul 2013 23:30:11 -0500
>>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Ubuntu-phone] Multi-window support ?
>>>>>>> From: coder543@xxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> To: estelar57@xxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> CC: ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What is the difference? We really don't know what unity 8 for the
>>>>>>> desktop looks like. But, based on logical induction, the only significant
>>>>>>> difference is that you can move things around and resize them as windows in
>>>>>>> one, and they're all fullscreen in the other. You can still run the same
>>>>>>> apps in desktop mode as in tablet mode, but more applications might be
>>>>>>> available to desktop mode.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> This isn't Windows. Canonical is striving towards Unity. Microsoft
>>>>>>> chose a divided approach, with clear separation between desktop and tablet.
>>>>>>> On Jul 19, 2013 11:16 PM, "Omar B." <estelar57@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> >A 20" screen definitely qualifies for desktop mode. I don't think
>>>>>>> it would be running tablet style at that point.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Then, I wonder what would be the case study for the ASUS
>>>>>>> Transformer AiO.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Just desktop mode?
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1hUPWgLXMBY
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> http://www.asus.com/AllinOne_PCs/ASUS_Transformer_AiO_P1801/
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>>>> Post to     : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>>>> Post to     : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>> --
>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>>> Post to     : ubuntu-phone@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ubuntu-phone
>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> --
>>>>> Rasmus Eneman
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> Rasmus Eneman
>>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Rasmus Eneman
>