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[Bug Watch Updater <890438@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

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On 2011-11-14T21:35:44+00:00 BakLAN wrote:

Created attachment 53559
Screenshot of keyboard layouts list when it changed after Ctrl+Alt+K is pressed.

I'm using three keyboard layouts in Kubuntu 11.10 that installed in following order:
1) English (US);
2) Russian;
3) Ukrainian

I found that several keyboard combinations to switch layouts has issues
that makes working with system, especially with texts, very
uncomfortable. The main issue is that switching procedure differs from
manner in which keyboard layout installed but there are some other
issues too. Next I'm describing in detail all the combinations and found
issues.

Alt + Caps Lock – with Right Alt + Caps Lock it stops switching on last
layout – UA.


Alt + Ctrl — 1) with Left Alt + Left Ctrl is wrong switching order (US-UA-RU); 2)  with Right Alt + Right Ctrl is right switching order but it stops switching on last layout - UA


Alt + Shift — 1) with Left Alt+ Left Shift is wrong switching order (US-UA-RU); 2) with Right Alt + Right Shift is right switching order but it stops switching on last layout – UA.


Alt + Space – with Right Alt + Space it stops switching on last layout – UA.


Caps Lock (to first layout), Shift+Caps Lock (to last layout) – Shift+Caps Lock switching to RU but must to UA as UA is the last layout.


Ctrl + Shift – with Left Ctrl+ Left Shift and with Right Ctrl + Left Shift is wrong switching order (US-UA-RU)


Left Ctrl (to first layout), Right Ctrl (to last layout) – Right Ctrl switching to RU, but must to UA, as UA is the last layout.


Both Alt`s – not works if first Left Alt and then Right Alt pressed (if first pressed Right Alt and then Left Alt - it works)


Both Ctrl`s – not works if first Left Ctrl and then Right Ctrl pressed (if first pressed Right Ctrl and then Left Ctrl - it works)


Both Shift's – wrong order if first right Shift pressed and than left Shift (US-UA-RU) (if first left Shift pressed and than right – right order)


Right Alt – it stops switching on last layout – UA.


Ctrl+Alt+K. This combination is not working at all. When I press it the list of layouts, that we can see clicking by right mouse button on layout indicator, changes the view like in picture in attachment (layout.png).

All this issues makes the work in system, especially with texts, very
uncomfortable and should be fixed.

Тhanks in advance.

Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-
config/+bug/890438/comments/0

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On 2011-11-17T19:40:23+00:00 Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote:

This is the issue with Ubuntu and KDE rather than xkeyboard-config

Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-
config/+bug/890438/comments/5

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On 2011-11-24T00:11:16+00:00 BakLAN wrote:

(In reply to comment #1)
> This is the issue with Ubuntu and KDE rather than xkeyboard-config

Actually, we have three problems:
1) Alt+Ctrl+K

2) Keyboard layout switching order differs with order in which keyboard
layouts are installed.If there is more than two keyboard layouts
installed (for example US, RU, UK) then right keyboard shortcut for
change layout (for example Ctrl+Shift) switches layouts in sequential
order (US -> RU -> UK), when left keyboard shortcut (same: Ctrl+Shift) -
it switches layouts in back order (UK -> RU -> US). And it looks like
there is no way to change this very uncomfortable behaviour of
xkeyboard-config.

And looks like there is no way to change this very uncomfortable
behaviour.

3) If try to use some right buttons of keyboard layout switch shortcuts
instead of left, the switching stops at last layout (in my case - in
UA).

First problem is in KXKB and seems it was already fixed.

The second, as says developer of KXKB Andriy Rysin here:
https://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=286958#c4, concerns to xkeyboard-
config, although you say the opposite. Let's somehow to understand where
the problem really is, cause it makes the work with text very very
uncomfortable.

The third problem requires the same determination as second.

Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-
config/+bug/890438/comments/7

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On 2011-11-26T18:52:53+00:00 Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote:

> Actually, we have three problems:
> 1) Alt+Ctrl+K
This is definitely DE's issue.
 
> RU -> US). And it looks like there is no way to change this very uncomfortable
> behaviour of xkeyboard-config.
Well, there is a way - but this is done intentionally, as far I can tell looking at the code.

    key <LCTL>  {       [       Control_L,      ISO_Prev_Group ]        };
    key <RCTL>  {       [       Control_R,      ISO_Next_Group ]        };


> 3) If try to use some right buttons of keyboard layout switch shortcuts instead
> of left, the switching stops at last layout (in my case - in UA).
Same as #2

Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-
config/+bug/890438/comments/8

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On 2011-11-26T20:17:16+00:00 BakLAN wrote:

(In reply to comment #3)
 
> Well, there is a way - but this is done intentionally, as far I can tell
> looking at the code.
> 
>     key <LCTL>  {       [       Control_L,      ISO_Prev_Group ]        };
>     key <RCTL>  {       [       Control_R,      ISO_Next_Group ]        };
 
I'm sorry, but I can't understand why it is done intentionally. It is very very uncomfortable. One order in installed three layouts and by other order they switches. Why and how can it be normal???
 
> > 3) If try to use some right buttons of keyboard layout switch shortcuts instead of left, the switching stops at last layout (in my case - in UA).
> Same as #2

Yes, the same as #2: how can it be normal? For example let's try
Alt+Shift combination. If we use Left Alt + Left Shift it switches: US -
UА - RU. But keyboard layouts installed in different order: 1) US; 2)
RU; 3) UA. So Left Alt + Left Shift must to switch US - RU - UA but not
US - UA - RU !

The ogher thing. Now let's try Right Alt + Right Shift, it switches as
US - RU -UA - it is right order! But when it switched to UA, then it
just does not work - not switches to US from UA. Obviously it is a BUG.
How can it be normal when layouts swithes to last layout and stops to
switch further ???

Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-
config/+bug/890438/comments/9

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On 2011-11-26T22:35:32+00:00 Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote:

I totally understand your irritation. But that is the way things worked
for years (before xorg split from xfree86 and I started maintaining
xk-c). I guess you understand that changing that behavior for very
popular switchers would irritate a lot of users that used to the
existing behavior.

Regarding not switching from UA to US - it is quite trivial. In the
Ukrainian layout (group 3), RAlt is used for access to level 3. So at
that point it is not a part of the group switcher any more.

    key <RALT> {
        type[group1]= "TWO_LEVEL",
        type[group2]= "TWO_LEVEL",
        type[group3]= "ONE_LEVEL",
        symbols[Group1]= [           Alt_R,  ISO_Next_Group ],
        symbols[Group2]= [           Alt_R,  ISO_Next_Group ],
        symbols[Group3]= [ ISO_Level3_Shift ]
    };

Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-
config/+bug/890438/comments/10

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On 2011-11-26T23:23:55+00:00 BakLAN wrote:

(In reply to comment #5)
> I totally understand your irritation. But that is the way things worked for
> years (before xorg split from xfree86 and I started maintaining xk-c). I guess
> you understand that changing that behavior for very popular switchers would
> irritate a lot of users that used to the existing behavior.
> 
> Regarding not switching from UA to US - it is quite trivial. In the Ukrainian
> layout (group 3), RAlt is used for access to level 3. So at that point it is
> not a part of the group switcher any more.
> 
>     key <RALT> {
>         type[group1]= "TWO_LEVEL",
>         type[group2]= "TWO_LEVEL",
>         type[group3]= "ONE_LEVEL",
>         symbols[Group1]= [           Alt_R,  ISO_Next_Group ],
>         symbols[Group2]= [           Alt_R,  ISO_Next_Group ],
>         symbols[Group3]= [ ISO_Level3_Shift ]
>     };

Ok with RAlt. It's not principal for me. And if left and right Alt are different, then may be it's right. But. In case of wrong order when switching. Why if the things worked in some strange way for years, they should be perceived as correct? Maybe just no one wanted to write the report because of low importance for them? And I don't understand why one keyboard shortcut must switch in different order than other keyboard shortcut? Why, for example the Win key switches EN-RU-UA and LAlt+LShift switches EN-UA-RU ? How can it be right, how can it be comfortably as user can only be used to one behavior. And each time user change the keyboard shortcut, he has to get used to new behavior. This is not normal.
But anyway. If it must be as it is, can you please do it configurable? Some kind of "Switching by installed order" or any that will make possible to switch layouts in order they installed (If installed in order 1) EN; 2) RU; 3)UA; than or possible shortcuta swithes in EN - RU - UA way. Can you ?

Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-
config/+bug/890438/comments/11

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On 2011-11-27T00:09:24+00:00 Sergey V. Udaltsov wrote:

> Ok with RAlt. It's not principal for me. And if left and right Alt are
> different, then may be it's right. But. In case of wrong order when switching.
> Why if the things worked in some strange way for years, they should be
> perceived as correct?
There is nothing "correct" about existing way. Or the way you want. The existing way is just what people are used to. Really, IIRC you are first who complained.

> Maybe just no one wanted to write the report because of
> low importance for them? 
Quite possible

> And I don't understand why one keyboard shortcut must
> switch in different order than other keyboard shortcut? Why, for example the
> Win key switches EN-RU-UA and LAlt+LShift switches EN-UA-RU ?
You know, there is grp:win_menu_switch. Check it, you'll be surprised.

> But anyway. If it must be as it is, can you please do it configurable? 
Only by introducing completely new grp:* xkb option. And, for a moment, you are the only user of it - so I am not sure I would be happy to commit it.

What you can do is organize some public discussion (on any English or
Russian-speaking forum, so that I could understand) about that matter.
Voting perhaps. That might convince me.

Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-
config/+bug/890438/comments/12

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On 2011-11-27T01:26:34+00:00 BakLAN wrote:

> There is nothing "correct" about existing way. Or the way you want.
Yes, there is just sequential order and back order, but different situations where this orders can be used for keyboard layout switching.

> The existing way is just what people are used to.
Peoples "may" want to use sequential order not only with Win key but also with left Alt+Shift or Ctrl+Shift. Am I correct?

> Quite possible
> And, for a moment, you are the only user of it - so I am not sure I would be happy to commit it.
It's take a lot of time for me to understand what happening and how keyboard layout switch work in Linux. You know, this stuff (X Server, X Keyboard Config, KXKB in KDE SC) is complicated for typical user. I absolutely sure nobody who suffer from this bug not try to file bug report about this problem because it's complicated to understand where is the problem. 
You maybe not see this point because you are developer and you know Linux inside, but try to think from point of view just typical user. They maybe complain about this bug. Maybe just use Win key workaround. Maybe ask on forums. But not file bug report. Because they even doesn't know about this bug tracker and XKC existence. It's just a fact.

So please stop thinking it's only my problem. It's just not true.

> You know, there is grp:win_menu_switch. Check it, you'll be surprised.
I configure XKC in KXKB. You mean use Win key for switch keyboard layout? Yes, I already know about it (check in my previous message: "Why, for example the Win key switches EN-RU-UA")

> What you can do is organize some public discussion
May I ask: how many peoples who use three keyboard layout on Linux you know? 
(Did you remember Harald Sitter case? I mean your point of view doesn't look like point of view a man who know peoples who use three keyboard layouts on Linux. Just like Harald who think before your comments on Launchpad "you do not need to switch your keyboard layout to write in english" because... you know why he think that. So your point of view looks the same.)

> Only by introducing completely new grp:* xkb option.
You know, I even think current behavior should be the optional. Because typical users doesn't expect it. Typical user expect  sequential keyboard layout switch order, but you are right - user may want to use current behavior. But it should be optional.

Reply at: https://bugs.launchpad.net/xkeyboard-
config/+bug/890438/comments/13


** Changed in: xkeyboard-config
       Status: Unknown => Confirmed

** Changed in: xkeyboard-config
   Importance: Unknown => High

** Bug watch added: KDE Bug Tracking System #286958
   http://bugs.kde.org/show_bug.cgi?id=286958

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https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/890438

Title:
  Wrong keyboard layout switching order when using more than two layouts

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