unity-design team mailing list archive

[Marc Lajoie <manorapide@xxxxxxxxx>]

And you intend to understand your target audience's needs without including
it in the discussion?

Marc Lajoie

ps. Where's your science that says that users resist changing their
work-flow based "more [on] ... fear of change and the unknown"? Isn't it
possible their preferences are not completely invalid?

pps. I have to go to sleep, so will be abandoning this discussion soon.

On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 11:25 PM, Mitja Pagon <mitja.pagon@xxxxxxxxxx>wrote:

> There is absolutely nothing wrong with full-screen writing software from
> design perspective, actually they make a lot of sense in that particular
> case (backed by science), it's just that that doesn't make full-screen an
> optimal case for every application.
>
> I suspect that you are somewhat misinterpreting what interaction/user
> experience (even industrial) design is, it's not about forcing designers own
> views upon users, that called bad design and it's sadly omnipresent, it's
> rather about understanding your target audiences needs and providing an
> optimal interface for those needs.
>
> Users existing habits and work-flow are a common obstacle to adoption of
> new interfaces, but that has more to do with the fear of change and the
> unknown and it doesn't imply that said interface is bad. MS Office ribbon
> interface is a good example of that, lot's existing users complained, but
> new users and users who got beyond that initial fear, were actually very
> pleased with the experience (a similar example in the field of programing
> languages is VB.NET at the time it was released).
>
> Cheers,
> Mitja
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Marc Lajoie" <manorapide@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: "Lee Hyde" <anubeon@xxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: ayatana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Wednesday, March 16, 2011 3:37:11 PM
> Subject: Re: [Ayatana] Design problems in general
>
> I am a writer. I write fiction using my computer, which for me is a
> creative tool.
> My workflow is maybe chaotic, sometimes illogical, but it works for me. An
> interface that is not flexible enough to adapt to my creative workflow is a
> system I will not use. I am not about to change the way I create my art at
> the insistence of a machine.
> This is the sort of thing a designer can't hope to understand without some
> input from the end-user. Ubuntu is supposed to be for human beings, and
> human beings are not always logical; This is not a bug but a feature.
> A perfect example is the fullscreen text-editors that are popular among
> writers. Interface designers, I suspect, are baffled at why any user would
> want to hide the entire interface (including information-giving pieces of
> interface that in no way cover or interfere with the writing space). But to
> me, and to many writers, having an aesthetically pleasing writing
> environment is inspiring. It is not the most logical, efficient possible
> layout, granted. But it's pretty, and pretty makes me happy--and being happy
> helps me write.
>
> Marc Lajoie
>
> On Wed, Mar 16, 2011 at 9:59 PM, Lee Hyde <anubeon@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> On 16/03/11 13:01, Thorsten Wilms wrote:
>> > If you are not under too tight constraints, the questionshouldn't be
>> > how something is being done, not even how users would like to do it, but
>> > rather: how should they do it?
>>
>> I thoroughly disagree with this assessment of UI/X design for the
>> following reasons:
>>
>>    1. It flies in the face of Ubuntu's "Linux for Humans" motto
>>
>>    2. There is a risk of over-intellectualising UI/X design
>>
>> As I see it (and do correct me if I'm wrong) there is a lack of data
>> to support the 'how it should be done' philosophy. How does one
>> arrive at a conclusion of 'how it should be done'? Have there been
>> any mouse tracking or eye tracking studies on the subject? If so did
>> any of them cover the ease with which end-users adapted to UI
>> changes such as the adoption of left-alignment of window controls or
>> UI changes resulting from switching operating systems? Is there any
>> data concerning uptake of packages and/or settings to subvert
>> changes to the UI/X (beyond the mere existence of such packages)?
>> Without such data I fail to see how one could arrive at a conclusive
>> decision regards a UI/X redesign.
>>
>> It would be nice to have some form of opt-in anonymous data
>> gathering package (census?) for precisely this kind of data
>> gathering. Something similar to Mozilla's Test Pilot and LabKit
>> add-ons which could be used to enrol users (which their prior
>> knowledge and ultimate control) in new UI/X studies and
>> prototype/proof-of-concept UI/X designs. Whether you'd get enough
>> participants to make it worth the developers efforts I don't though,
>> although I would certainly participate in any studies and many
>> prototypes on offer.
>>
>> There is of course a place for artistic license, but not at the cost
>> flexibility or at the risk of dictating how the end-user must use
>> their computer. For example, would it really be so terrible to offer
>> the end user options such as positioning of the Unity panel (bottom
>> or top), or positioning of the Unity dock/springboard? Would it be
>> terrible to consider the users upgrade path when designing (or
>> rather setting up) the interface. A lifelong windows user might
>> prefer a bottom-aligned panel and right-aligned window controls to
>> smooth the transition whilst a MacOSX user might prefer precisely
>> the opposite.
>>
>> On 16/03/11 13:01, Thorsten Wilms wrote:
>> > Sometimes the problem may be certain users stubbornness rather than
>> > anything else, especially if you design for the long term. So the answer
>> > may have to be wrapped up in a strategy to "sell" it.
>>
>> It's not always simply a case of user stubbornness.
>>
>> Speaking from personal experience, the decision to enforce
>> left-alignment of window controls in Unity will have a negative
>> impact on my own work flow. Due to circumstances beyond my control I
>> have little choice but to dual-boot both Ubuntu and Windows. I work
>> within a laboratory environment wherein many proprietary control and
>> data analysis software is reliant on a Windows platform (often
>> legacy). Hence I fund myself having to dual-boot or VM into Windows
>> frequently, to translate and/or manipulate data gathered via
>> laboratory equipment. This is a very jarring experience, and the
>> shift to and fro left-aligned window controls certainly impacts on
>> my efficiency.
>>
>> Of course the above use case is a rather nice scenario, but I am
>> sure than numerous office worker suffer from similarly strict
>> (although for different reasons entirely) IT provisioning that
>> forces them to use Windows in the workplace. Some thought ought to
>> be given to the 'forced to dual-boot' community, as I'm sure it's a
>> sizeable one. The consistency of user experience should be a goal,
>> not only within Ubuntu itself, but throughout the users experience.
>> The Windows platform is unlikely to offer a left-aligned mode, and
>> so it falls to Ubuntu/Unity to offer an (optional) right-aligned
>> mode lest risk vexing their 'forced to dual-boot' user base. As
>> things stand, I will have to forgo Unity in favour of gnome-panel
>> until this particular issue is addressed (assuming it ever will be)
>> but if push comes to shove I will have little choice but to default
>> to Windows (laboratory equipment manufacturers are unlikely to
>> provision Linux based software any time soon) and I can see myself
>> using Ubuntu less and less (which is a shame, as I far prefer it to
>> Windows).
>>
>> --
>>
>> "The second basic thesis is that intellectual freedom is essential
>> to human society — freedom to obtain and distribute information,
>> freedom for open-minded and unfearing debate and freedom from
>> pressure by officialdom and prejudices. Such a trinity of freedom of
>> thought is the only guarantee against an infection of people by mass
>> myths, which, in the hands of treacherous hypocrites and demagogues,
>> can be transformed into bloody dictatorship. Freedom of thought is
>> the only guarantee of the feasibility of a scientific democratic
>> approach to politics, economics and culture."
>>
>>    -- Andrei Sakharov, The New York Times (July 22nd, 1968)
>>
>>
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