unity-design team mailing list archive

[Daniel Hollocher <danielhollocher@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hey Mark,
Im going to disagree a little with the crowd.  I don't think it is a good
idea to split the unity list.  Unity is your project.  Of all people, you
are putting the most into in, in terms of investment, thought, and wisdom.
 You are probably the person who cares the most about the success of the
unity project.  It's your baby.

So, any mailing list with the unity name on it should cater to you.  And
those participating on these lists should not only not be resentful about
that, but be excited about that.  We should be here to support you.  I
count myself as one of those.  So, I hope that instead of splitting the
lists, you will just start taking some steps (baby steps) to make this one
better.  Even if you decide wrong, it will be your learning experience
(which is a good thing).

In that light, I have a few ideas that I would do, if I were in your
position.  Ultimately, what's done should be your decision, so I would like
to only speak for myself.  Hopefully, these ideas will serve to broaden the
possibilities in your mind.

1) Another list:
One could argue that this first idea is remarkably similar to what you are
already proposing.  But, I don't like the idea of splitting the unity list
into two, where one is important, and the other is more like `> /dev/null`.
 I think we could use another list that is for general UI discussion, not
limited to just unity.  Maybe something like ubuntu-ui-discuss.  I think
some people post ideas for Unity just because that are looking to solve a
problem they are currently experiencing.  In other words, they are looking
for support.  Having a general ui-discussion list would allow for
competition among the different shell options (hopefully not flamewars),
and also allow for support for people that really just need some support.

2) Name change:
I would change the name of the list to unity-council.  Participation on any
project is a privilege, not a right, including the unity project.   Of
course, I think the mailing list should be more like a council that is
supporting Mark S., and so, accepting that, I suggest that the name
reflects that.  I think this will better communicate how decisions are made
regarding unity, and reduce resentment.

3) Temporary bans:
Trying to resolve all the problems of this list through reason alone can be
frustrating for all.  Breaking out the ban-hammer can be a way to resolve
things in a way that is better for everyone.  It can of course bring
quicker resolutions to "those" topics, but it can also help to sort through
who is here selflessly, and who is not.  Those who are here selflessly will
be able to handle temporary bans emotionally, where as, I believe, the
selfish will handle these bans poorly.  They will cause further trouble and
make it so the temporary ban actually has to be permanent, or much longer
than expected.  And for those that get perma-banned, they really will be
better off trying to sort through their issues in a different venue.

3a) Self imposed bans:
If those temp bans are self imposed (ie, folks are merely asked to not post
for a length of time, but no technical measures are taken), it will also
help to weed out the undisciplined.  Anyone who doesn't have the discipline
to self enforce a ban is probably not ready to have a deep and meaningful
discussion about unity.

If those that read this email were to agree with any of my ideas, I would
hope they would agree that Mark deserves to have this list work really well
for him; that Mark should have our permission and blessings to try out
different ideas to achieve that, and that Mark should also have our
permission to makes some mistakes along the way.

Thanks,
Dan


On Fri, May 4, 2012 at 12:10 AM, Mark Shuttleworth <mark@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> Hi folks
>
> We've done rather well to attract a lot of comments and discussion on
> the unity-design list, which is great. And there are lots of interesting
> ideas and suggestions and proposals and mockups, which is even better.
>
> There are, however, quite a lot of repetitive threads. For example,
> today's "yet another dodge windows" thread. Into that category I'd put
> the "why can't it be an option" thread and the "it's ridiculous that the
> buttons are on the left" thread. For all that they represent perfectly
> valid ideas, which are certainly shared by some users, they have been
> discussed to death and are boring to re-hash again and again. They clog
> an inbox that would otherwise be full of more interesting, new ideas. We
> are over them, so to speak, but new participants may not know that.
>
> There's lots of value in having a public, unmoderated list for design
> discussions. It's good to have a place where anybody can generate ideas.
> And this list is fine for that. I'd like to propose an additional list,
> unity-distilled, which would be public and unmoderated, but open by
> invitation only. Participation there would be predicated on a shared
> understanding of our values, goals and modus operandi. People would be
> invited if they show an interest, insight into and agreement with the
> answers to the above boring threads, and several more like them. I'm
> sure we'll have vigorous debates on -distilled, but folk there would
> have demonstrated an ability to have the debate, settle the question and
> move on to more interesting matters rather than letting the same topics
> come up repeatedly.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Mark
>
>
> --
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>


-- 
"For every complex problem, there is an answer that is clear, simple--and
wrong."