← Back to team overview

yade-dev team mailing list archive

Re: π=2 ?! (Ip2_FrictMat_FrictMat_FrictPhys)

 

Hehe. If you want to understand Ip2_FrictMat_FrictMat_FrictPhys, you have to read Chareyre's thesis, not Hentz's thesis. ;)

Ip2_FrictMat_FrictMat_FrictPhys can't be wrong because it says nothing!

I can't explain the logic behind Hentz, what I know is what dimensional analysis says : The macroscopic (packing) stiffness E is proportional to k/D. So, if I like (I could dislike) to get a constant E for different sizes D, I need k=E*/D, where E* is "a constant", or say a material parameter. In that case, I can tell I have E=A.E*, where A is to be determined for each new packing density, size distribution, anisotropy, deposition method, ... The point is to get the same elastic behaviour for a packing of size e.g. 1x1x1, whatever the number of element in the packing.

I never claimed E=E*, which is why it makes no sense to compare the equations as you did. In Hentz, E is really supposed to be the stiffness of the packing.

I could put, a factor 2,3,7,PI,sqrt(2) in front of Kn = ..., it would not change the fact that A is unknown. And currently, _there is no exact theory giving A_. If there was a theory for that, well, we could just quit DEM and go derive equations.


is 1.57× smaller than one used by Hentz.

1.57 is a joke, if you consider that for the same kn, E can vary from 1 to 10 depending on packing density, etc. I'm actually spurprised that the difference is so small. Note that, if I remember correctly, the funny factor in Hentz is not just for Poisson ratio. It also includes the number of contact per volume, which is a way to account for different densities (approximately).

That being said, with the current "FrictPhys" definition of Kn, and with a random mid-dense packing, with a narrow distribution of sizes, A will be close to one. But don't repeat that to anybody, because one day somebody will say "oh, I found E!=E*, your equation is wrong!", exactly like now.
So, the official answer is : E =A.E*, A undefined, nothing more.

Bruno




Follow ups

References