Re: [Ayatana] Criticism of Client Side Window Decorations

[Jeremy Nickurak <jeremy@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

What about just having a protocol for saying "here's something the application would like to implement", ala the existing indicator applet. Different implementations could do different things with it. A compliant window-manager might stick them in the title-bar in a consistent way. If the window-manager doesn't support it, a different implementation could put them in the existing indicator applet, or the notification area. It could be a seperate window, or a panel applet, or a dialog-box.... whatever the implementer likes.

Handing over control of window decorations to the client applications is asking for a lot of trouble in terms of desktop look-and-feel consistency, as well as bugs. Given that there also seems to be better ways of getting the same features we'd like, application-dictated window decorations seems like the wrong path to me.

On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 13:49, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:

"Frederik Nnaji" <frederik.nnaji@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

>On Sat, May 15, 2010 at 17:48, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> "Akshat Jain" <ssj6akshat1234@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>>
>> >Link Copy-Pasta
>> >
>> http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2010/05/why-you-should-not-use-client-side-window-decorations/
>> >
>> http://blog.martin-graesslin.com/blog/2010/05/follow-up-on-client-side-decorations/
>> >
>> >This guy named Martin Gräßlin is a hardcore KWin fan I think,looks like if
>> >he were a senior GNOME developer he would have replaced Metacity with
>> >KWin.Lol
>> >
>> >Design Team?
>>
>> He's one of the leading kwin developers. It would be a bit surprising if he
>> was not a fan.
>>
>> Personally I find turning window decoration over to applications an odd way
>> to go about increasing consistency on the desktop.
>>
>
>i see the point, though.
>turning over the title bar design to the app will not increase consistency
>altogether
>two things happen, if we do this:
>* app designers will consider DE-wide consistency more
>* sooner introduction of gnome-globalmenu

If you're vision of consistency is limited to applications built with a single set of technologies for a single type of workspace, then I suspect you will fall short of your goal. Most people I know run a somewhat mixed set of applications in their DE of choice.

The focus on technology that was applicable across the free desktop in previous cycles (such as dbus menu) have a lot of potential to move desktop consistency forward for everyone.

I'm curious if you have any examples of a decentralizing change such as csd resulting in increased consistency? My experience has been the opposite. Developers tend to (naturally) focus on their domain and optimize for that. IME it's difficult for them even to realize optimizing their element of the system may suboptimize the system as a whole.

Scott K
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