c2c-oerpscenario team mailing list archive

[Graeme Gellatly <727635@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi,

I told you already -> A Sales Order creates a Procurement Order and a
Picking (both of which are stored in the SO or SO Line), the Procurement
Order then creates a PO if certain conditions are met (although exactly why
there is Procurement Orders anyway is a discussion point) and writes the
purchase ID to the procurement order.  When you receive the products, the
scheduler then assigns those MTO products to the associated SO.  That is how
they are linked.  SO -> Proc -> PO, you can chain back if you want.

I agree that it is poor design that once a PO is cancelled it never throws
an exception for the SO ( or more importantly vice versa, a cancelled SO
raising an exception on the PO) and this is important missing functionality,
but is not a bug IMO.  Once again if you wanted the system to behave this
way then for now you'd need to create a custom module but I imagine it would
be less than trivial, but the links are all in place to get from one object
to the other, a number of functions already exist to do the grunt work, so
mainly it is following the logic and linking it up.  I don't know, you might
even be able to do it in workflow editing alone.

Maybe it is point of view, but I still think most businesses do not get 2 or
3 quotes for most of what they purchase by $ volume, especially in
manufacturing and distribution.  They mostly get none (consistent high
volume, regular supplier), or one (unexpected high volume, regular supplier)
with preferred supplier agreement in place.  Certainty of supply and costs,
as well as time constraints generally trump any small savings that might be
made when dealing in large numbers.

On Wed, Mar 2, 2011 at 10:28 PM, m.karrer <727635@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

> Thank you for your quick answer and it could be that i missed some
> points in OpenERP but would you be so kind and help me with this
> questions left:
> 1.) How are Purchase Orders linked to Sales Orders? :
> I did test it i could cancel a Purchase Order that was created from a Sales
> Order and nothing happens - The Sales Order does not go into Error state -
> No new Purchase Order gets created so they dont really depend on another or
> do they and i just can't see how? Service Oders are only linked to outgoing
> Pickings (Delivery to the Custommer) but not to any incomming supplies as
> far as we testet it (OpenERP 6.0)
>
> 2.) You are right i would have some fuziness in my products but (as you
> correctly stated) for small companies this is normall - It would be real
> pain to add every new variation as a new product - We do not have to
> identicall products most of the time so we would get only a large large base
> of useless Products wich needs to be "deactivated" after the Sales Order is
> finished wich creates much more clutter in my Systems than the little
> fuziness in my product sales - this is not usefull for large companies i
> totally agree but they would not have to do it that way - they still can
> create a product for everything and stick with it - like i said i see no
> other relationship between the SO and the created PO other than the one that
> i can only deliver the goods to my custommer if i have them? (It is
> definitly true that this situation affects small businsesses. But wasnt
> OpenERP supposed to be for small Businisses also?) -
> Nothing changes in the workflow for big companies except that no PO is
> created automatically at SO confirmation but their procurement would still
> see that they need the goods because an outgoing delivery order (DO) could
> still be created automatically at SO confirmation (and the custommer invoice
> in draft state also). Su my procurment team would see what is needed or even
> the automatic procurment could do its thing because everything is linke just
> on the outgoing DO and not the PO. PO is created in draft state any way and
> has nothing to do with the ammounts of good i have in my inventory - So no
> the person who is responsible for the SO does not need the right to do the
> purchases also! The only "right" they could have or need is the right to
> "generate" a PO in draft state - wich is just comfort and time saving
>
> 3.) You said "The vast majority of businesses do not get 2 or 3 quotes for
> most of everything?"
> I strongly disagree - In Our company group where i try to establish OpenERP
> are about 5 different companies in very different markets and (mostly 50 to
> 130  employees) and they all need to get "fresh" quotations for most of the
> things.
> My father is head of purchase at a large factory of Siemens and key user of
> SAP and even he has to get for most of the things new quotations - so this
> is maybe a "point of view" :)
>
>
> So would you please tell me why and how exactly PO is really LINKED to
> SO? I think then i would get your point!
>
> --
> You received this bug notification because you are subscribed to OpenERP
> Addons.
> https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/727635
>
> Title:
>  The creation of Purchase Orders from Sales Orders should be more
>  usefull and flexible!
>
> Status in OpenERP Modules (addons):
>  New
>
> Bug description:
>  Now in 6.0 stable Sales Orders create automatic Purchase Order on
>  confirmation. - For all companies who need an up to date price before
>  they can confirm a Sales Order this workflow is completly useless. In
>  fact an up to date price is often why a custommer asks us for a Sales
>  Order (Quotation) - Think of all service companies or comapnies
>  selling goods wich do not have a fixed price. All of this will not
>  really work with this workflow.
>
>  In fact it is even cumbersome because most of the times you have to
>  cancel or delete this automatically created Purchase Order(s)  because
>  you already have a confirmed Purchase Order that you made before the
>  confirmation of the Sales Order to get the up to date price(s).
>
>  The Solution:
>  -
>  Do not automatically create Purchase Orders at the "Sales Order
> confirmation" at all but instead do it like Purchase Requisitions:
>  Add a button to the Sales Order wich is able to create Purchase Orders at
> any time and any number of them. So on any press on this button a new
> Purchase Order is created with the right products and the right analytic
> account. - This is flexible and saves the user a lot of double typing the
> same Product lines over and over again.
>
>  The created purchase Orders do not have to belong to the Sales Orders
>  in any way except that the number of the Sales Order is in the Origin
>  Field of the created Purchase Order(s).
>
>
>  Do we loose something with this approach? :
>  -
>  I really dont think so. Because even now there is no relation ship between
> the Purchase Order and the Sales Order after it was created. Wich i think is
> good because most of the times you need at least two quotations from your
> suppliers before you can send the Sales Order to your custommer with an up
> to date price.
>
>
>  Example 1 with the workflow how it is now:
>  -
>  1.) Custommer calls and wants Business Cards
>  2.) We add a new Sales Order and add the Product Line "Business Cards" and
> change the Description to "Business Cards with extra glossy paint"
>  3.) We add a new Purchase Order (this is PO/001) and add the Product Line
> "Business Cards" and change the Description to "Business Cards with extra
> glossy paint" (Double Work)
>  4.) We duplicate this Purchase Order because we need a Quotation from at
> least two suppliers (this is PO/002)
>  5.) We send the Purchase Orders and get up to date prices
>  6.) We change our price in our Sales Order to the up to date price from
> our best supplier quotation (for example let us say PO/001 had the best
> Price) and send it to our custommer
>  7.) The custommer accepts the Sales Order and we confirm it -> This
> creates autimatically another Purchase Order. (PO/003)
>  8.) We cancel the automatically created Purchase Order
>  9.) We confirm the best Purchase Order PO/001 and cancel PO/002
>
>
>  Example 2 - with the new workflow:
>  -
>  1.) Custommer calls and wants Business Cards
>  2.) We add a new Sales Order and add the Product Line "Business Cards" and
> change the Description to "Business Cards with extra glossy paint"
>  3.) We press our new Button "Create Purchase Order" in the Sales Order
> form. -> This creates PO/001 with the right Products, and Product
> Descriptions (and if stated in the Sales Order the right Analytic Account.)
>  4.) We press the Button again this creates PO/002
>  5.) We send the Purchase Orders and get up to date prices
>  6.) We change our price in our Sales Order to the up to date price from
> our best supplier quotation (for example let us say PO/001 had the best
> Price) and send it to our custommer
>  7.) The custommer accepts the Sales Order and we confirm it
>  8.) We confirm the best Purchase Order PO/001 and cancel PO/002
>
>  TADA! :) No double typing - No extra PO/003 - just angles singing and
>  happy employees ;)
>

-- 
You received this bug notification because you are a member of C2C
OERPScenario, which is subscribed to the OpenERP Project Group.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/727635

Title:
  The creation of Purchase Orders from Sales Orders should be more
  usefull and flexible!

Status in OpenERP Modules (addons):
  New

Bug description:
  Now in 6.0 stable Sales Orders create automatic Purchase Order on
  confirmation. - For all companies who need an up to date price before
  they can confirm a Sales Order this workflow is completly useless. In
  fact an up to date price is often why a custommer asks us for a Sales
  Order (Quotation) - Think of all service companies or comapnies
  selling goods wich do not have a fixed price. All of this will not
  really work with this workflow.

  In fact it is even cumbersome because most of the times you have to
  cancel or delete this automatically created Purchase Order(s)  because
  you already have a confirmed Purchase Order that you made before the
  confirmation of the Sales Order to get the up to date price(s).

  The Solution:
  -
  Do not automatically create Purchase Orders at the "Sales Order confirmation" at all but instead do it like Purchase Requisitions: 
  Add a button to the Sales Order wich is able to create Purchase Orders at any time and any number of them. So on any press on this button a new Purchase Order is created with the right products and the right analytic account. - This is flexible and saves the user a lot of double typing the same Product lines over and over again.

  The created purchase Orders do not have to belong to the Sales Orders
  in any way except that the number of the Sales Order is in the Origin
  Field of the created Purchase Order(s).

  
  Do we loose something with this approach? :
  -
  I really dont think so. Because even now there is no relation ship between the Purchase Order and the Sales Order after it was created. Wich i think is good because most of the times you need at least two quotations from your suppliers before you can send the Sales Order to your custommer with an up to date price.

  
  Example 1 with the workflow how it is now:
  -
  1.) Custommer calls and wants Business Cards
  2.) We add a new Sales Order and add the Product Line "Business Cards" and change the Description to "Business Cards with extra glossy paint"
  3.) We add a new Purchase Order (this is PO/001) and add the Product Line "Business Cards" and change the Description to "Business Cards with extra glossy paint" (Double Work)
  4.) We duplicate this Purchase Order because we need a Quotation from at least two suppliers (this is PO/002)
  5.) We send the Purchase Orders and get up to date prices
  6.) We change our price in our Sales Order to the up to date price from our best supplier quotation (for example let us say PO/001 had the best Price) and send it to our custommer
  7.) The custommer accepts the Sales Order and we confirm it -> This creates autimatically another Purchase Order. (PO/003)
  8.) We cancel the automatically created Purchase Order
  9.) We confirm the best Purchase Order PO/001 and cancel PO/002

  
  Example 2 - with the new workflow:
  -
  1.) Custommer calls and wants Business Cards
  2.) We add a new Sales Order and add the Product Line "Business Cards" and change the Description to "Business Cards with extra glossy paint"
  3.) We press our new Button "Create Purchase Order" in the Sales Order form. -> This creates PO/001 with the right Products, and Product Descriptions (and if stated in the Sales Order the right Analytic Account.)
  4.) We press the Button again this creates PO/002
  5.) We send the Purchase Orders and get up to date prices
  6.) We change our price in our Sales Order to the up to date price from our best supplier quotation (for example let us say PO/001 had the best Price) and send it to our custommer
  7.) The custommer accepts the Sales Order and we confirm it
  8.) We confirm the best Purchase Order PO/001 and cancel PO/002

  TADA! :) No double typing - No extra PO/003 - just angles singing and
  happy employees ;)