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Anders Logg wrote:
On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 05:41:42PM +0100, Martin Sandve Alnæs wrote:On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 5:26 PM, Anders Logg <logg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 04:59:43PM +0100, Martin Sandve Alnæs wrote:On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 4:33 PM, Anders Logg <logg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 01:42:55PM +0100, Martin Sandve Alnæs wrote:On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 1:16 PM, Johan Hake <hake@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:On Thursday 12 March 2009 12:58:33 Garth N. Wells wrote:Anders Logg wrote:On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 10:46:14AM +0100, Martin Sandve Alnæs wrote:On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 10:32 AM, Anders Logg <logg@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 10:25:36AM +0100, Martin Sandve Alnæs wrote:I have serious problems with the idea of letting user-defined functions change nature to discrete functions as a side effect of other operations, effectively hiding the user-defined implementation of eval. (I know this concept wasn't introduced in this discussion, but it's related).You mean by calling u.vector()? Yes, I agree it's problematic. But I don't know how to handle it otherwise. Consider the following example: u = Function(V) solve(A, u.vector(), b) First u is a user-defined function since it doesn't have a vector. Then it becomes discrete when we ask for the vector. The problem I think is that there is no way for us to check whether a user has overloaded eval() without trying to call it.If we didn't require that user-defined functions had a function space for various operations, this wouldn't be as large a problem. Then you could do class MyFunction(Function) { MyFunction(V): Function(V) {} MyFunction(): Function() {} void eval(...) { ... } } MyFunction f; f.vector(); // error, no function space! MyFunction f(V); f.vector(); // ok, should interpolate and make f discrete This is already possible, but function spaces get attached unneccesarily: 1) It's not necessary to attach function spaces to functions for assembly, since a user-defined function is evaluated through ufc::finite_element::evaluate_dofs for each cell anyway. This would remove the need for the side-effect in MyFunction f; MyForm a; a.f = f; // attaches function space to fIsn't the function space used to deduct the value rank during assemble now? If we go for this approach we probably need to readd the rank function and make it virtual?I don't see how the current approach with rank deducted from some function space is any safer than deducting it from the finite element of the form. Which is to say: this is unsafe, the user should define the rank when defining eval.We just removed the rank() and dim() arguments from the Function interface as they are not needed.Are not needed because a Function always has a FunctionSpace or for some other reason? If we don't require a FunctionSpace I think they should be re-added. I expect to be able to use a Function for other things than assembly, e.g., if I get some arbitrary Function to some code: void foo(Function & f) { ... compute something with f } I can't know the dimensions of arguments to f. This means I can't write generic code to do something with Functions.One of the simplifying assumptions we made a while back when redesigning the Function classes was that a Function always has a FunctionSpace. This still seems to be a good assumption and perhaps we should enforce it even stronger than we do now. It would also make it easy to check for errors during assembly. The form knows the correct FunctionSpace and the assembler may compare that FunctionSpace against the FunctionSpace of the Function.I'm happy with "a Function always has a FunctionSpace" concept if it is strictly enforced at construction time. The current situation is not so, and since I'm allowed to create a user function without a function space I expect to be able to use it where it makes sense. C++ is often much easier to work with if objects are completely initialized at construction time, then there are a lot of mistakes you're just not allowed to make.I agree completely. This is the approach we tried to follow in the recent redesign of Function. That's why one first needs to create a mesh, then a function space, then a form. I'm not sure why we decided not to enforce the requirement of having a function space for coefficients. It seems it wouldn't be anymore difficult than what we have now. For example, the Poisson demo would be UnitSquare mesh(32, 32); PoissonFunctionSpace V(mesh); PoissonBilinearForm a(V, V); PoissonLinearForm L(V); Source f(V); L.f = f; // without side effect
That's OK, but if you have >5 coefficients with >5 different functions spaces, it's not nice.
I don't think having rank(), dim(), geometric_dimension() as mandatory in the Function interface would help. I've seen more examples of programs breaking from rank() and dim() being implemented incorrectly than I've seen programs breaking from eval() being implemented incorrectly. And no error-checking can save a user from typing values[100] = x[30] inside eval(), unless we move away from arrays to some bounds-checking type for the arguments to eval.Ok, it probably isn't a big problem to not have a check for this in assembly. The main error this kind of check used to catch was mismatch between function argument order in forms, which isn't a problem anymore.The geometric dimension is proably deducable from other places during assemble.Of course, but that doesn't guarantee that the Function and the Form uses the same dimensions. Error checking is _the_ reason for making the user provide this information explicitly. The point of having explicit rank in a Function is not that the expected rank isn't available during assembly, but because the actual rank of the Function should be _checked against_ the rank expected for the form argument. In general, I find it very frustrating that DOLFIN has so little error checking.No one objects to error-checking. Error-checking is good and we should do more of it. Feel free to add as much as you like. Make sure to include clear and sensible error messages.I'm sorry, I don't have any time to donate for this, my time is better spent with UFL anyway. I'm trying to adapt a habit of always documenting my assumptions of input arguments to a function with checks and assertions. It's way harder to add checks to other peoples code or code I wrote myself long ago. I believe the only way to do better at this point is if everybody starts writing checks whenever new code is added or old code is modified. It also makes reading code easier!Yes, that works fine if you know what you want to do from the start, but I find that the design is often evolving and I wouldn't know which unit tests to write until the code is finished.Tests are hard, I know... But here I was thinking about simple things like matching dimensions and vector sizes etc.Yes, and I agree it's important. The tests are missing simply because we've either been lazy or been pressed on time (and most often the latter).
I think that this point is being exaggerated. We can and should add more tests, but there are tests. DOLFIN is not devoid of error checking.
Garth
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