elementary-dev-community team mailing list archive

[Jaap Broekhuizen <jaapz.b@xxxxxxxxx>]

I also think implementing Behavorial testing (applying BDD) is very
relevant for us, as we are focussing a lot on user interface and
interaction.

So imo we should start on a project which we can use as a playground for
both unit an behavorial testing.

Does anyone know of good vala bdd frameworks?

Jaap
Op 26 apr. 2013 22:21 schreef "Cassidy James" <cassidy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
het volgende:

> I don't think we need any convincing; everything I've heard from the devs
> is that we need to do this. It's just a matter of figuring out a common way
> of doing it.
>
> Craig, a relatively small/new project that could use testing is the new
> Scratch or even the new work going on with Contractor. Both are (from what
> I understand) fresh codebases and now might be the time to work  on tests.
> I recommend you hop into #elementary-dev and work with the devs on getting
> some tests worked out.
>
> Regards,
> Cassidy
> On Apr 26, 2013 11:04 AM, "Pál Dorogi" <pal.dorogi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>> I dunno, I am a newbie here.
>>
>> On 26 April 2013 22:24, Craig <weberc2@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> > That's exactly what I'd like to know: how can I help. I can try and post
>> > some tutorials, but I'd like to know who is interested and what the
>> > development community already knows.
>> >
>> > On Apr 26, 2013 6:39 AM, "Pál Dorogi" <pal.dorogi@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Hi Craig,
>> >>
>> >> I agree 100% /w you, but I think you should write some tutorials and
>> >> post them in your blog, if you have any. But in my opinion that the
>> >> human beings do not like "re-learn" things and the real OOP, Design
>> >> Patterns, SOLID, TDD etc. etc. are very steep and time for a non-real
>> >> OOP/DP experienced Programmer/Developer.
>> >> Also, the learning curve is very steep for these advanced stuffs and
>> >> needs long time to get there. But, nobody would not know how good are
>> >> they until haven't learnt and used those stuffs, would they?.:)
>> >>
>> >> I did sine similar things, getting some new fresh things (TDD,
>> >> MvvM/Presentation Model Design Pattern) to programming in Vala
>> >>
>> >> ((
>> http://ilapstech.blogspot.com/2013/04/advanced-programming-in-vala-dafs.html
>> )
>> >> but you should keep in mind that this kind of new things (TDD, DP,
>> >> SOLDI, MVVM etc. etc.) are like evolution (evolution in Programming)
>> >> which needs some time to get it succeeded (or failed).:)
>> >>
>> >> On 26 April 2013 20:36, Craig <weberc2@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >> > Hello everyone,
>> >> >
>> >> > I'm just leaving San Jose after having spent a week listening to a
>> lot
>> >> > of
>> >> > smart people talk about, among other things, Test Driven Development
>> >> > (TDD).
>> >> > I know I keep harping on this, but among the people who write the
>> >> > coolest,
>> >> > best software (and other average software folks) TDD is seen as
>> >> > absolutely
>> >> > critical. I can't point to anything other discipline in the software
>> >> > world
>> >> > that is of comparable importance. And here's why:
>> >> >
>> >> > When we start writing software, we can manage it with a couple of
>> >> > developers, perhaps all the way up through the first release;
>> however,
>> >> > as we
>> >> > add features, our software becomes more complex. It's hard for us to
>> >> > remember what parts of our programs worked well before and what parts
>> >> > are
>> >> > broken. We often make changes to the underlying architecture to
>> >> > facilitate a
>> >> > new feature, but we're not exactly sure if in doing so, we broke an
>> >> > existing
>> >> > feature. And we'll of course do a little ad hoc manual testing to
>> verify
>> >> > that things still work, but we're only going to really check 5-10% of
>> >> > the
>> >> > code that we most suspect would break. And even if we do power
>> through,
>> >> > we're only going to ever check 60-70% of the code, and it's all a
>> very
>> >> > slow,
>> >> > unreliable process. Soon we spend all of our time fighting bugs and
>> we
>> >> > can
>> >> > never get around to any interesting work. Does this pattern sound
>> >> > familiar?
>> >> >
>> >> > With TDD, you write a simple, small test for every piece of
>> interesting
>> >> > code
>> >> > you write, and every time you rebuild the project, all of your old
>> tests
>> >> > run. If you're writing good tests, you can be assured that all of
>> your
>> >> > code
>> >> > works as you intend it to every single time you build, and if someone
>> >> > merges
>> >> > in a bug, it will be caught immediately (and the test that fails will
>> >> > give
>> >> > you some good information about what broke/where the bug is hiding).
>> >> >
>> >> > Of course, it takes time to write tests; however, it's still much
>> less
>> >> > time
>> >> > than you would spend debugging your code. Furthermore, when you write
>> >> > tests
>> >> > before you write your production code, you are forced to design your
>> >> > code
>> >> > modularly just to make it testable. Among software professionals,
>> TDD is
>> >> > seen as the fastest way to write software. I mean, Luna has been 90%
>> >> > complete for 90% of its development cycle, and this is a common
>> pattern
>> >> > in
>> >> > the software world.
>> >> >
>> >> > With all of this in mind, I'd like to know how I can help you guys
>> start
>> >> > practicing TDD? If this hasn't persuaded you, I'd appreciate it if
>> you
>> >> > would
>> >> > respond and give your perspective so we can talk about it. I'm very
>> >> > interested in seeing you guys continue to put out great software, but
>> >> > I'm
>> >> > concerned that as you write more code, you're going to be creating
>> more
>> >> > for
>> >> > yourselves to maintain and the amount of time you spend writing new
>> >> > software
>> >> > is going to drop off exponentially as the complexity (as complexity
>> >> > produces
>> >> > bugs) increases.
>> >> >
>> >> > Please let me know if/how I can help you.
>> >> >
>> >> > Craig
>> >> >
>> >> > --
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>> >> >
>>
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