elementary-dev-community team mailing list archive

[Alex Lourie <djay.il@xxxxxxxxx>]

I believe that this has been discussed quite thoroughly already. For now,
TDD as a development philosophy is not really appropriate for the eOS
development. That is not a direct result of tools missing for unittesting,
but again, a development process decision.

That said, I think that testing is important for elementary, and we are
going to try and look for some automation testing. I will post my findings
shortly about that.


On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 3:38 PM, Daniele S. <oppifjellet@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

> I do understand your point, and I agree with that. But what I want to
> discuss is not if the TDD is generally a good approach ( hint. it is )
> but if it's the right approach for a community driven project like
> elementaryOS.
>
> about this statement:
>
> "So if you can test something in a language (if its build in or not) you
> can run do TDD."
>
> You should also consider the effort ( and the cost ). When using a
> programming language that doesn't offer unit test facilities applying TDD
> may be tedious and require lots of effort ( like writing your own test
> suite engine ).
>
> ( as background, I'm used to agile methods, at work we use SCRUM and PRTI,
> we are introducing TDD but at a slow rate )
>
> BR,
>
> Daniele
>
>
> 2013/9/3 Michael Lazarski <michael@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>> **
>>
>> Hello,
>>
>> TDD isn't a Technic its a mindset or a philosophy.
>>
>> It came from the Agile manifesto http://agilemanifesto.org/ .
>>
>> So if you can test something in a language (if its build in or not) you
>> can run do TDD.
>>
>> Often young developers don't see the need for writing test and even
>> experienced hackers don't do.
>>
>> How often where you hunting a bug and you had to log stuff to hunt the
>> bug?
>>
>> Or how often you see code and you go WTF?
>>
>> Here come test in handy. Now the young padawan may ask why?
>>
>> IF a test is good written you don't need to log stuff because when you
>> break something the test will tell you what and where.
>>
>> Now the young padawan says: But should't I write good code instead?
>>
>> Yes, but the god like programmer is a Myth and if you think your a good
>> hacker your probably a very bad one! << Facts !
>>
>> But how test can make me faster understand someones code?
>>
>> Simple: People how have Higher Mathematics in School/College/University
>> probably have seen mathematical proofs.
>>
>> Most students think that Teachers do that to annoy the shit out of you
>> but this is just wrong and you probably very bad at Mathematics too...
>>
>> In Mathematical proofs like in test we can see the essence of what the
>> hacker wanted to do.
>>
>> By looking at what he tested and how we can understand how things works
>> and how the shouldn't.
>>
>>
>> SO you can not test and the code must be rewritten a lot like in
>> contractor. maybe not today or maybe not in 1 or 2 months but at some point
>> it will happen and if the guy how wrote the shitty code is not there
>> anymore you will prey for test and a documentation of the code.
>>
>> OH and when people say: look at the source and you will understand it.
>> they are pretty dumb too...
>>
>> Hacking is Art! If I look at the Mona Lisa and someone else will do we
>> maybe see the same thing but think very different!
>>
>> So don't be dumb! Test and Document if you have the workflow right it
>> will take not more then 10 minutes of a work hour but it will save letter
>> tons and tons of work hours!
>>
>>
>> Greetings lampe2
>> Gruß Michael Lazarski
>>
>> --------------------------------------------------
>> life simply so other people can simply life!
>> Inspired by: https://vimeo.com/17576843
>>
>> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
>> *Von:* Daniele S. <oppifjellet@xxxxxxxxx>
>> *Gesendet:* Die 3 September 2013 13:40
>> *An:* elementary-dev-community@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> *Betreff:* [Elementary-dev-community] about TDD (Test Driven Development)
>>
>>
>> I read some threads focusing on TDD, so I wanted to create one where we
>> can continue that conversation without being offtopic.
>>
>> I'd say my two cent about TDD and elementary os development.
>> In my opinion our current environment is obstile to TDD for serveral
>> reason:
>>
>> 1. Vala doesn't support TDD out of the box (  other languages do:
>> http://cobra-language.com/ )
>> 2. GLib.Test is a unit test facility that is available to Vala
>> applications, however it's not as advanced as CppUnit, NUnit and equivalent
>> 3. TDD is great for libraries and backends, not so much for GUI
>> applications and Database driven applications.
>> 4. TDD needs lots of fakes and mocks to be written, and that could be
>> very time expensive ( and tedious sometimes )
>>
>> Some references to Unit testing on vala apps:
>> http://valadoc.org/#!api=glib-2.0/GLib.Test
>> http://esite.ch/2012/06/26/writing-tests-for-vala/
>>
>> feel free to comment
>>
>> BR,
>>
>> Daniele "OpenNingia" Simonetti
>>
>> --
>>
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>
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-- 
Alex Lourie