getdeb-collaboration team mailing list archive

[Joao Pinto <joao.pinto@xxxxxxxxxx>]

Paulo,
thanks for your strong support but unfortunately this was a pondered
decision.

I have tried to reach Mark per the appropriate channel which is the
Community Council, I have sent a request for the definition of a process to
control non technical driven changes [1], I got a positive feedback from one
of the CC members, Matthew East.
I have added my request to the CC meeting, there was some conversation, you
can check the irc logs [2], the meeting started around 21:00 .

To be very clear, I was not seeking to get any power against Canonical, it
was about getting at least a process which enforced all parties to inform
the community about the changes, in a timely manner, so that we could at
least comment, the decision marker could use our feedback or ignore it, also
it should be very clear who is making the decision.

The meeting was fruitless, the reasonable request which come from Matthew
and was aligned with my expectations is:

[22:06] <mdke> I don't like reading that Canonical owns Ubuntu. I'd
like to see a concept where Ubuntu is a community driven project, with
Canonical as the major funder and employee of many developers.
[22:06] <mdke> If that is accepted, then it obviously follows that
there should be a community governance team with overall supervision
of such issues
[22:07] <mdke> there's no reason why such a team could not be
sensitive to Canonical interests as we all are now

The answer from Mark was:
[22:09] <sabdfl> mdke: i appreciate that's a noble idea, but i don't
believe it's workable

It is pretty clear to me, not just from this event but for a sequence of
events during last months that Canonical is no longer a team player.

I am just a regular member, mdke is a Community Council representative, the
highest possible position as a community representative, his suggestion was
promptly dismissed by Mark.
The CC is a powerless body whose main purpose is to resolve inter-community
disputes, it does no have any real capacity to represent the community when
Canonical is involved. There is no real Community on the Ubuntu formal
organization, the CC is a powerless group of community representatives
nominated by Mark. There is people there which really cares about the
community, however they can not do nothing.

Yes, Ubuntu is a successful FOSS project paid by Mark, I will not argue on
that.
Does it has a good relation with the broader FOSS world ? I don't think so.
Does it allow open discussion and capable Community participation ? I don't
think so.

[1] -
http://handypenguin.blogspot.com/2011/02/non-technical-driven-changes-to.html.
[2] - http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/03/01/%23ubuntu-meeting.html

I got a positive reply from a CC member, Michael  who shared my concerns.
http://irclogs.ubuntu.com/2011/03/01/%23ubuntu-meeting.html

I will evaluate a return to Ubuntu when besides Free Software supporting, it
also promotes open communication, transparency and proper community
representation.

Michael,
my reply answers your first question.

About Debian, I am not sure they have a policy user-friendly enough, the
last time I have checked it didn't an user friendly interface for the image
download.

I will probably get involved with Fedora.

On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 6:57 PM, Michael Chelen <michael.chelen@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:

> What was the actual disagreement or misunderstanding?
>
> How about forking the site for the Debian distro? It would have most
> of the same material as Ubuntu only without any authority by
> Canonical.
>
>
> On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 1:37 PM, Paulo Dias <paulo.miguel.dias@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > Hi joao, im very sad you had to come to this decision, but i can
> understand
> > and respect your point of view.
> >
> > Im more a kubuntu guy myself (all the way up to ninja status lol), and i
> > agree that canonical has made some bade moves over the last few months.
> >
> > For the time being, kubuntu as a siste project is still very much
> untouched
> > from mark ego, so ill go along with them - for the time being.
> >
> > I think you should reconsider and send an open letter to mark, stating
> what
> > you think should be adressed for a better open governance. Quitting (for
> the
> > lack of a better word) is never a good option for a project. Im not
> saying i
> > dont understand and respect your opinion and decision, im just saying you
> > should sleep it over, take a deep breath and use getdeb power (which is
> > considerable) to "force" mark/canonical to more reasonable terms.
> >
> > Anyway, if you insist in departing from your leading role, ill respect
> that
> > and welcome Korn as our new leader (but hoping you change your mind).
> >
> > Ive been a veteran of this project (even older then christoph i believe
> :)),
> > although not much active this past year (and for that i apologize), and i
> > would hate to see you and your positive work be lost in the current
> > canonical turmoil.
> >
> > Vent it, bitch about it but dont leave. you can change things with much
> more
> > influence from inside then from the outside.
> >
> > Anyway, just my 2 cents.
> >
> > Hope to hear from you soon.
> >
> > Um seu criado :)
> >
> > | Paulo Dias
> > | IT Consulting
> > | paulo.miguel.dias@xxxxxxxxx
> >
> >
> > On Thu, Mar 3, 2011 at 14:55, Joao Pinto <joao.pinto@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>
> >> Hello,
> >> as some of you may know I am retiring myself from the Ubuntu community.
> >>
> >> The main reasons are:
> >> - Either Ubuntu is taking a different direction from the one I have
> >> understood when I joined, or I just misunderstood Ubuntu's initial
> direction
> >> at all, it is likely be the later since from my conversations there are
> >> other community members which  share the same understanding and agree
> with
> >> it.
> >> - It is clearly communicated that Canonical is the single sponsor of the
> >> Ubuntu project, however it is frequently omitted that Canonical has FULL
> >> decision capacity over all aspects of the project, either direct or
> indirect
> >> (nominated boards), such miscommunication either intentional or
> accidental
> >> does not allow me to trust Canonical, sponsorship SHOULD NOT grant
> >> unrestricted and undefined capacities, such does not happen on real
> business
> >> projects, it is even worse from the fact that the project includes
> volunteer
> >> work
> >>
> >> Some of you may not find it reasonable, but when we devote so much free
> >> time of our lives to a project, we must firmly believe to be done
> according
> >> to our principles.
> >>
> >> Despite the very small team GetDeb is an healthy project, it has a large
> >> user base, and it does not depend on me neither financially nor
> >> operationally.
> >> Christoph Korn has been co-administrating with me for quite some time,
> he
> >> is also the biggest package contributor, he is in the right position to
> take
> >> the leadership of the project.
> >>
> >> I will be transferring to him all GetDeb related assets:
> >> - GetDeb/PlayDeb domain ownership
> >> - Launchpad groups ownership (I am not sure yet how to achieve that)
> >> - Subscription funds (I have 1k € which belong to GetDeb)
> >> - Subscription records (We will need to engage subscribers to
> >> re-subscribe)
> >> - www/abs hosting contacts and non formal agreed conditions
> >> Note: I still need to move wiki.getdeb.net from my friend hosting to
> >> either www/abs
> >>
> >> I will continue present and available for the project as a technical
> >> collaborator and adviser.
> >>
> >> --
> >> João Luís Marques Pinto
> >> GetDeb Team Leader
> >> http://www.getdeb.net
> >> http://blog.getdeb.net
> >>
> >> _______________________________________________
> >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~getdeb-collaboration
> >> Post to     : getdeb-collaboration@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~getdeb-collaboration
> >> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >>
> >
> >
> > _______________________________________________
> > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~getdeb-collaboration
> > Post to     : getdeb-collaboration@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~getdeb-collaboration
> > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
> >
> >
>



-- 
João Luís Marques Pinto
GetDeb Team Leader
http://www.getdeb.net
http://blog.getdeb.net