kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On 7/28/2010 6:51 PM, Dick Hollenbeck wrote:
> On 07/28/2010 02:18 PM, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
>> On 7/28/2010 6:03 AM, Dick Hollenbeck wrote:
>>   
>>> On 07/21/2010 04:31 PM, Dick Hollenbeck wrote:
>>>     
>>>> Are people happy with launchpad?
>>>>
>>>> 10 = extremely happy
>>>> :
>>>> :
>>>> 1 = extremely dissatisfied
>>>>    
>>>>       
>>>
>>> Thanks to those that responded.  I am pleased that everyone is mostly pleased. 
>>> This gives me political cover to now offer my own opinion.
>>>
>>> Here are my ratings:
>>>
>>>
>>> Bugtracker:  3
>>>
>>> Patch handling:  1
>>>
>>> Wiki or generic webpage infrastructure: 1
>>>
>>> Bzr: 8  (I like "bzr qlog")
>>>
>>> Maillist: 7
>>>
>>> Launchpad.net overall: 3
>>>
>>>
>>> The world of open source hosting has a long way to go in my opinion.
>>>
>>>
>>> My biggest surprise, unexpected disappointment and complaint with launchpad is
>>> the patch handling.  This is compounded by the fact that it was a (almost the)
>>> primary motivator for the move TO launchpad, IMO.
>>>
>>>
>>> Let me summarize my frustration and ask for some help on a path forward:
>>>
>>>
>>> There are two pathways into the "Active Reviews"
>>> (https://code.launchpad.net/kicad/+activereviews) list, which is the so called
>>> patch handler:
>>>
>>>
>>> 1) Push a modified branch to launchpad, "Propose" a merge request at the
>>> launchpad.net website,
>>> https://code.launchpad.net/~kicad-testing-committers/kicad/testing/+register-merge
>>>
>>>
>>> 2) Locally, $ bzr send, and send the "merge bundle" as an attachment to a
>>> signed email.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> The problem with 1) is that it requires too much learning for a "drive by patch
>>> submitter" person.  The learning investment is too high for somebody that would
>>> submit about 5 patches per year or less.  We will still end up with patches on
>>> the mailing list.
>>>
>>>
>>> The problem with 2) is that the email parser at launchpad.net will not handle
>>> any variations other than some undocumented concoction of signed main mail body
>>> but with an unsigned bundle attachment.  I am unable to get this to work after
>>> 3 days trying.  Help on irc #launchpad usually comes back saying "it works in
>>> the general case", wait for so and so to help you.  So and so comes later and
>>> says the same thing.  I have worn out my political capital there.  They know I
>>> am extremely unhappy and have told me they don't care if I were to simply go
>>> away, along with the whole Kicad project.
>>>
>>>
>>> So, what is a merge bundle?  A merge bundle is basically a patch generated by
>>> BZR, with special meta data at the end which holds the name of the destination
>>> branch, submitter, author, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>> And why is using a signed email the only way to submit a merge bundle?  Who the
>>> hell knows.
>>>     
>> Dick,
>>
>> Apparently I have run into some of the problems you did with option 2
>> attempting to send a test merge request.  I am currently waiting for a reply
>> for error I got back from Launchpad so I'll continue to attempt to make some
>> progress once I get a response.  In any event, you are correct that it is a
>> PITA to get your mail client (in my case Thunderbird) setup and all of the GPG
>> key stuff set up just to submit a merge request.  I was curious how other
>> Launchpad projects were handling this issue.  I checked about 5 or 6 random
>> projects and could not find a single instance of a merge request that was not
>> submitted against a public branch pushed to Launchpad (option 1).  Maybe there
>> is a reason no one uses option 2.
>>
>>   
>>> I ask you to help me get the launchpad developers to accept a merge bundle
>>> through a web form.
>>>
>>> There is no reason that if a merge bundle is good enough input in general, that
>>> a merge bundle coming in through another secure pathway is not also acceptable.
>>>     
>> I don't understand why there isn't already a web interface to support merge
>> requests in this manner.  Once you are logged into Launchpad, all of you
>> changes go through https so I don't see an issue.  It would still be nice to be
>> able to submit merge requests directly from you mail client.  Firing up a
>> browser and logging in to submit a merge request are extra steps that can be
>> avoided.  I agree that for folks who submit simple infrequent patches should
>> not have to go through the complication of options 1 and 2.
>>
>>   
>>> I am asking for help in getting some action going on it by the developers
>>> through https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad
>>>     
>> Here is the link to the question I had from the error response from launchpad:
>>
>> https://answers.edge.launchpad.net/launchpad-code/+question/119254
>>
>> I will continue to follow up when I get an answer and/or a solution.  If the
>> answer and/or solution I get is unsatisfactory, I will submit a request to add
>> a form to the merge request page for uploading merge bundles.
>>
>> Wayne
>>   
> 
> Thanks Wayne. I got further than you have with dialog to the developers
> using IRC so it was not recorded fully.  The end result was "sorry, the
> logging of the error message is insufficient in the current code".  They
> have an error log, but it is not descriptive enough.
> 
> 
> If I ask for the new feature, it will not carry as much weight as if
> somebody else asks for it.  Remember, I have used up all my political
> capital with these mere launchpad developers. 
> 
> 
> This was the *main purpose* of this thread, me asking for help.    Well
> technically, this is me asking for help in order that I might better
> help others, including those helping me.
> 
> I don't think we should delay to ask for the feature.  Submitting a
> patch (merge bundle) at a webform is easy as cake.  They have half the
> code already written.

I just got answer to the question I posted.  It is a known bug.  Of
course the solution is to push the branch to Launchpad (option 1) which
is what we want to avoid.  I will make a request for a merge bundle
upload form to the merge request page on the Launchpad bug tracker with
wish list severity some time tomorrow.  I would still like to see bzr
send work without having to push your development branch to Launchpad so
I will continue probing for answers and solutions to the question I
submitted.

> 
> Why limit the number of people making the request to one person?  Also,
> I see no reason why a personal email could not be sent to Mark
> Shuttleworth, who is listed as a project administrator of launchpad, and
> IIRC is the owner of Canonical.  I suspect if he new all his work was
> getting a score of 3 from a launchpad.net user (me), it might mean
> something.  If not, then my score of 3 gets lowered.

If we can't get any movement on this issue by submitting a request than
this may be a viable alternative.  I would make this my plan B if plan A
doesn't pan out.  I figure it never hurts to ask.  The worst thing he
could do is say no.

Wayne

> 
> 
> Thanks Wayne.
> 
> Dick
> 
> 
> 
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