kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

On 3/7/2011 5:53 PM, Dick Hollenbeck wrote:
> On 03/07/2011 02:56 PM, Wayne Stambaugh wrote:
>> I ran into some unexpected behavior of the PCBNew auxiliary toolbar while
>> converting the control update handling over to wxUpdateUIEvent.  When selecting
>> a trace or via, the net class edit box (which is read only), clearance edit box
>> (also read only), trace width choice box, and via size choice box values where
>> changed to the selected object's net class value.  This is a departure from
>> normal object information display which is to display all of the object
>> information in the message panel at the bottom of the screen.  Since I broke
>> the old behavior, I want some input before I make any more changes.
>>
>> I propose removing the net class name and clearance read only edit boxes
> 
> 
> Intuitively, "read only edit boxes" gives a hint of an oxymoronic problem
> doesn't it?

I doubt I could have phrased it any better.

> 
> 
> One could wish that
> 
> 1) toolbars offer choices, and
> 2) a message panel shows things, including choices made.
> 
> 
> One is a chooser, the other an indicator.

Except for this one case, this is the behavior for the schematic, component
library, pcb, and module editors.

> 
> But in the real world however, there are situations where you have to give
> indication and control/manipulation, both, from the same metaphor.
> 
> So I don't have a strong opinion, on this, until I get back into using the
> software again, at which point my opinion might get stronger.
> 
> It is unfortunate that "ease of programming" is having such a large role in
> this decision, rather than ease of use.   Ideally ease of use rules, in any
> case, and ease of programming happens because the code is designed to
> facilitate ease of use.

The "ease of programming" issue should be resolved by changing over to
wxUpdateUIEvent for control state handling.  The complexity of the old set
toolbar design was a large part of the problem.  The fact that I changed the
auxiliary control state behavior brought this issue into the light.  Hopefully,
the current design will make implementing ease of use features more manageable.

> 
> 
>>  and
>> display all of the net class information when a trace or via has a net class in
>> the message panel.  This behavior is consistent with selecting all other
>> objects in PCBNew and prevents the current selected track and via size from
>> being changed when the user (at least this user) doesn't expect them to be
>> changed.  I have already discussed this with JP and if no one else objects, I
>> will make it so.
>>
>> That being said, what I really would like to see happen is to make the net
>> class control a choice box with a list of all the defined net classes so that
>> drawing a net without a assigned net class will be assigned and drawn with the
>> currently selected net class.  That seems like something that would be useful
>> instead of having to open the DRC dialog whenever I need to set the net class
>> for net.  I am not volunteering to do this.  But it's one of those improvements
>> that I think would be a time saver.
> 
> 
> It should be easy to use, is what you are saying.    Do we ask the user to
> specific the netclass for each net up front?  If so, then why is there any
> choice to be made this late in the game?

The only choice currently is the selecting the trace width and via size for
routing nets that do not have an assigned net class.  These questions are the
same questions I asked myself when making the changes and it is why I asked for
clarification before I make any more changes.

> 
> If that decision was deferred, is it really enough to give a netclass name
> drop down combobox, without also showing what it means?

If the net classes are selectable on the fly, than it makes sense to update the
track, via, and clearance controls to reflect the currently selected net class.

> 
> 
> Others have pointed out that eventually the netclass editor should be moved
> into EESCHEMA, so that the layout person's job becomes more mindless.
> 
> I am always arguing for features which will bring in a corporate user  (the
> hobbyists are not my intended audience anymore, no offense). 
> 
> Yes, we all get to chose where and how we would spend our time.  If
> hobbyists benefit, that is only accidental from my point of view, and I am
> serious about this.

No argument here.  I am corporate user so I am going to spend my time
contributing to Kicad accordingly.

> 
> In the corporate world, the engineer does the schematic, and probably
> assigns the netclasses up front.  So less support for late binding of
> netclasses is needed in my opinion to make this audience happy.

Thanks for input.  I guess I'll have to get to work on the new schematic file
format to support assigning net class information in the schematic editor.  In
the interim (assuming no one protests too loudly), I will make my proposed
changes to PCBNew until there is a better user paradigm for selecting net classes.

Wayne

> 
> 
> Dick
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> Wayne
>>
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> 
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