kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxxxx>]

Since this doesn't effect me, I don't have a preference one way or
another.  Although option 2B makes the most sense to me.  OSX users
please weigh in so we can get this right.  You might want to get some
input from the user group on Yahoo.  There may be more OSX users than
developers and their input may be useful..Thanks again Bernhard for all
of your hard work.

On 10/4/2014 10:10 AM, Bernhard Stegmaier wrote:
> One additional note on (1):
> You can create an alias pointing to, e.g., the pcbnew executable inside
> the kicad bundle and put it where you want.
> Therewith, you can start pcbnew directly by clicking on it - only
> downside is that since pcbnew executable looks like a command line
> binary for OSX a terminal is started in which then pcbnew is executed.
> 
> 
> Regards,
> Bernhard
> 
> On 04.10.2014, at 15:56, Bernhard Stegmaier <stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
> 
>> There are 2 possibilities as far as I can see:
>>
>> *(1) One single application bundle - like it is now.*
>> There are probably still some cosmetic issues as Garth told, but I
>> think these are just minor inconsistencies that could be sorted out.
>> From an efficiency point of view it is no difference… 2 clicks this
>> way to start e.g. pcbnew (first click opens kicad launcher, second
>> pcbnew), the same for the “old” approach (one click to open KiCad
>> folder, second to start pcbnew).
>> Positive: No space wasted
>> Positive: No dependency problems, it just is self-contained and
>> completely relocatable
>> Negative: May break with users habits (Apple does this all the time,
>> so nothing new for OSX users… :) )
>>
>> *(2) A KiCad-fodler with one application bundle per “executable” -
>> from a users point of view how it was before.*
>> Again, two options:
>> *(2a) Self-contained bundles *
>> You have to pull every dependency into every bundle. 
>> Especially, you also have to duplicate all the *.kifaces into the
>> kicad bundle for the launcher (and maybe also into other bundles e.g.
>> if you want/could launch pcbnew from eeschema - don’t know if that is
>> possible).
>> If you don’t do it like that (as it was before using symlinks between
>> bundles), it looks like it is a normal OSX application you can move
>> around where you want, but actually you can’t because you break
>> inter-bundle dependencies.
>> Maybe it is not a regular use-case to pull e.g. pcbnew out of the
>> KiCad folder, but nobody forbids that… so maybe someone likes to drag
>> pcbnew to his desktop because then it’s only one click to start...
>> Positive: Everything is individually self-contained
>> Negative: Space wasted for duplicating things - especially pcbnew with
>> scripting pulls in all the wxPython stuff that will be contained at
>> least twice then...
>> *(2b) App-Folder + Individual Bundles + Common-Folder*
>> All the dependencies and the *.kifaces are put into the common folder,
>> the bundles itself are linked in a way to use things from the common
>> folder. 
>> Positive: No space wasted
>> Negative: Inter-Bundle dependencies as explained in (2a).
>> Negative: Just a cosmetic issue, but you always see that common folder
>> in the dock launcher
>>
>> One thing to note is that even in (1) you could start, e.g., pcbnew
>> from command line as “standalone” binary.
>>
>> I must confess, I am not an OSX bundle guru. 
>> If anybody has a nice other solution, I’ll be glad to hear.
>>
>>
>> Regards,
>> Bernhard
>>
>> On 04.10.2014, at 15:17, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>>> On 10/4/2014 4:26 AM, Bernhard Stegmaier wrote:
>>>> Hi,
>>>>
>>>> most of your observations are as far as I can see not a problem of
>>>> the bundles itself, but of the KiCad modular concept (kiface).
>>>> When you launch pcbnew et al. from KiCad launcher the correct
>>>> “application” is only loaded as a module, so the main application is
>>>> still kicad launcher and I guess that’s why you for example see the
>>>> same name, they do not have their own icon, etc.
>>>
>>> KiCad no longer launches executables that run in a separate process.
>>> Since the kiway work was completed, Eeschema, Pcbnew, etc. are actually
>>> child windows of the KiCad application.  Eeschema, Pcbnew, etc. are also
>>> a stand alone programs but they don't get called from KiCad any longer.
>>> Some users prefer to run the individual applications this way so it
>>> would be nice if we could provide a separate icon and shortcut (or
>>> whatever it's called on OSX) so that the stand alone applications could
>>> be launched.
>>>
>>>>
>>>> For the “dock roulette” there is possibly a way to set the
>>>> application icon of window dynamically using wxWidgets.
>>>> Something to try… I guess behavior is the same on Linux/Windows, so
>>>> the might als benefit.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Regards,
>>>> Bernhard
>>>>
>>>> On 04.10.2014, at 09:30, Garth Corral <gcorral@xxxxxxxxx
>>>> <mailto:gcorral@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Hi all,
>>>>>
>>>>> I finally had a chance to build and try out the new all-inclusive
>>>>> OS X application bundles and I’ve encountered a couple of issues
>>>>> that tend to reduce the usability a bit for me.
>>>>>
>>>>> First, an observation unrelated to the new bundles.  I noticed with
>>>>> mainline builds on OS X, some of the subsidiary applications,
>>>>> specifically eeshcema and pcbnew, no longer have their own name in
>>>>> the application menu.  Instead they have the name of the main
>>>>> application, KiCad.
>>>>>
>>>>> This is fine and I assumed it’s part of an effort to improve
>>>>> integration between the applications.  On OS X, though, it’s a bit
>>>>> weird because the application menu still has an entry to “Quit
>>>>> pcbnew” and selecting that or Cmd-Q will indeed quit the
>>>>> sub-application, leaving you with a KiCad application menu as it
>>>>> switched back the the main app.  Not really a huge issue but is can
>>>>> be confusing and if you’re not paying attention you can
>>>>> accidentally quit your main app.  Not cool.
>>>>>
>>>>> The additional things I’m seeing with the new bundling is that now
>>>>> the applications the previously did launch as separate
>>>>> applications, even when launched from the main app, now have no
>>>>> icon of their own. They get the icon of the main kicad.app.  So if
>>>>> I launch, say, gerbview and pcb_calculator, I’ve now got three
>>>>> KiCad icons in my dock with no idea which one belongs to which
>>>>> application.  I have to play icon roulette to find out.  With the
>>>>> new CMakeLists.txt changes for these applications it seems there’s
>>>>> no way to go back to building individual application bundles for
>>>>> them without hacking and slashing.
>>>>>
>>>>> Any chance we can get back the ability to make bundles for these?
>>>>>  I’d go so far as to recommend that the bundles be included
>>>>> wholesale in an Applications directory int the main bundle, but I’d
>>>>> at least like the option of building them as bundles separately.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks in advance,
>>>>>
>>>>> Garth_______________________________________________
>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>