kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Bernhard Stegmaier <stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

I would judge it wrt eeschema GAL conversion.
If that starts with v6, I don’t know if it is worth the effort.
If it is unsure when this will happen, it might be worth it.


> On 4. Mar 2018, at 20:30, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> 
> Ughh!  I don't have a good answer for this one.  My best guess is to fix
> the wx macos code first and see what performance issues are left.  The
> problem with messing with any of this is that if you break something it
> will break all of the legacy canvas rendering not just the schematic
> editor.  I would move extremely carefully here.  I would prefer that we
> don't go too crazy this late in the v5 release cycle.  If the
> performance is truly not usable on macos, then we may have no choice.
> 
> On 03/04/2018 02:07 PM, Jeff Young wrote:
>> It turns out the fonts aren’t really the problem.
>> 
>> It starts with this gem in wxWidgets:
>> 
>>    voidwxWidgetCocoaImpl::ScrollRect(constwxRect*rect,intdx,intdy)
>> 
>>    {
>> 
>>    #if1
>> 
>>    SetNeedsDisplay();
>> 
>>    #else
>> 
>>    //Weshoulddosomethinglikethis,butitwasn'tworkingin10.4.
>> 
>>    if(GetNeedsDisplay())
>> 
>>    {
>> 
>>    SetNeedsDisplay() ;
>> 
>>    }
>> 
>>    NSRectr=wxToNSRect([m_osxViewsuperview],*rect);
>> 
>>    NSSizeoffset=NSMakeSize((float)dx,(float)dy);
>> 
>>    [m_osxViewscrollRect:rby:offset];
>> 
>>    #endif
>> 
>>    }
>> 
>> 
>> SetNeedsDisplay() with no rectangle argument invalidates the entire window.
>> 
>> Even if you fix that (to scroll most of the window and only invalidate
>> the newly-exposed parts), you run into this:
>> 
>>    voidwxWidgetCocoaImpl::drawRect(void*rect,WXWidgetslf,void*WXUNUSED(_cmd))
>> 
>>    {
>> 
>>    //preparingtheupdateregion
>> 
>>    wxRegionupdateRgn;
>> 
>> 
>>    //sinceaddingmanyrectstoaregionisacostlyprocess,bydefaultusetheboundingrect
>> 
>>    #if0
>> 
>>    constNSRect*rects;
>> 
>>    NSIntegercount;
>> 
>>    [slfgetRectsBeingDrawn:&rectscount:&count];
>> 
>>    for(inti=0;i<count;++i)
>> 
>>    {
>> 
>>    updateRgn.Union(wxFromNSRect(slf,rects[i]));
>> 
>>    }
>> 
>>    #else
>> 
>>    updateRgn.Union(wxFromNSRect(slf,*(NSRect*)rect));
>> 
>>    #endif
>> 
>> 
>> …which will /also/ cause the whole window to be repainted if there’s
>> both an invalidated horizontal strip and a vertical one.
>> 
>> And the latter turns out to be pretty much guaranteed by this one, which
>> batches repaints:
>> 
>>    voidwxNonOwnedWindow::Update()
>> 
>>    {
>> 
>>    if(clock()-s_lastFlush>CLOCKS_PER_SEC/30)
>> 
>>    {
>> 
>>    s_lastFlush=clock();
>> 
>>    m_nowpeer->Update();
>> 
>>    }
>> 
>>    }
>> 
>> 
>> But even Kicad isn’t blameless.  Once you fix all those there’s still no
>> checking in SCH_SCREEN::Draw() to see if the individual draw items
>> intersect the update region.  (Sure, the actually drawing is clipped in
>> the end, but you still go through a /lot/ of code to get there.)
>> 
>> All of these are fixable, and we’ve already crossed the Rubicon of
>> having our own OSX wxWidgets branch.  
>> 
>> But it’s still a reasonable amount of work, with a non-trivial risk
>> profile.  Should I continue?
>> 
>> Cheers,
>> Jeff.
>> 
>> 
>> 
>>> On 4 Mar 2018, at 01:30, Bernhard Stegmaier <stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>> <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>>> 
>>> No.
>>> 
>>>> On 4. Mar 2018, at 01:51, Andrey Kuznetsov <kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>> Would it be an easy fix to change the text/font such that it does not
>>>> affect performance so significantly on MacOS?
>>>> 
>>>> On Sat, Mar 3, 2018 at 5:20 AM, Wayne Stambaugh <stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>> <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:stambaughw@xxxxxxxxx>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>    On 03/03/2018 07:33 AM, Jeff Young wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>        Hi Andrey,
>>>> 
>>>>        I did some profiling and I’d guess that the difference in
>>>>        eeschema and pcbnew-legacy performance is down to there being
>>>>        more text in the schema.  Since we use a stroke font, there’s
>>>>        a lot of stroke segments in each letter.
>>>> 
>>>>        @Devs,
>>>> 
>>>>        I understand why we use a stroke font on the PCB, but there’s
>>>>        not much reason in eeschema, is there?
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>    This is possibly one of the things that I plan on changing after
>>>>    the new schematic file format is written.  The new file format
>>>>    will support font definitions so replacing the stroke font in
>>>>    Eeschema should be doable. Whether or not I have time to make
>>>>    this change remains to be seen.
>>>> 
>>>>    Wayne
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>        Cheers,
>>>>        Jeff.
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>            On 3 Mar 2018, at 08:18, Andrey Kuznetsov
>>>>            <kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>            <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>            <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>            The motherboard project is not very complex, I would say
>>>>            that performance should be tolerable UP to that size
>>>>            complexity, if we set the bar any lower, usability will
>>>>            suffer and people won't like KiCad because it's sluggish
>>>>            and interface lag is the worst kind of lag.
>>>>            My project isn't finished and Chris' project is available
>>>>            now, is just the right complexity and has layout that can
>>>>            be used for testing as well as a schematic.
>>>> 
>>>>            *LG 5K 27" display running 3200x1800 (the highest
>>>>            resolution without making text blurry, using this for
>>>>            work every day, so it's extravagant, it's practical)*
>>>> 
>>>>            *Actions:* pan with middle mouse, zoom back and forth.
>>>> 
>>>>            *eeschema:*
>>>>            Low Res - at least 2 times slower than would be
>>>>            considered normal, I would have to guess ~400ms lag
>>>>            Normal - 4-5x slower compared to low res mode ~1700ms lag
>>>>            Even in low res mode, and removing 75% of the items from
>>>>            Chris' schematic, the lag is still ~200-300ms, that's
>>>>            just not right. Additionally, I filed
>>>>            https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1753054 <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1753054>
>>>>            <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1753054 <https://bugs.launchpad.net/kicad/+bug/1753054>> because
>>>>            the mouse zoom is screwed up in eeschema, coupled with
>>>>            the lag, it's unusable. Maybe the pan lag is related to
>>>>            the zoom, maybe there are multiple steps being rendered
>>>>            when it should just jump to where the mouse ended up at,
>>>>            I don't know.
>>>> 
>>>>            *pcbnew - **Normal Resolution:*
>>>>            Accelerated: No-AA, <50ms
>>>>            Fallback: 500-1000ms for panning, 300-600ms for zoom
>>>>            Legacy: 1300-1700ms for panning, 600ms for zoom
>>>>            Low Res mode: did not notice speed increase, except maybe
>>>>            Fallback was ~400ms faster.
>>>> 
>>>>            I'm not saying halt the horses, certain modes are
>>>>            obviously limited, ie Legacy and Fallback by the nature
>>>>            of the task presented, but eeschema is barely displaying
>>>>            10% of the content pcbnew is but lagging so much worse!
>>>> 
>>>>            Just thought I'd include rendering of the Accelerated
>>>>            Graphics (top to bottom: Supersampling 4x, Subpixel AA
>>>>            (Ultra Quality), No AA)
>>>>            All 3 modes are responsive, probably <50-100ms lag, I'd
>>>>            consider this performance great, considering the amount
>>>>            of elements on screen.
>>>>            <image.png>
>>>> 
>>>>            How long should it take to delete this many selected
>>>>            elements in pcbnew?
>>>>            Answer: about 50x too long! I think it was like 3mins,
>>>>            perhaps ESC key should be available to press anytime to
>>>>            undo the delete action and restore to pre-delete screen
>>>>            when accidental actions are triggered that take forever
>>>>            to complete?
>>>>            <image.png>
>>>> 
>>>>            On Fri, Mar 2, 2018 at 9:53 AM, Bernhard Stegmaier
>>>>            <stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>            <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>            <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:stegmaier@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>> wrote:
>>>> 
>>>>                Hi,
>>>> 
>>>>                to be honest, I don’t really know what this is about.
>>>> 
>>>>                @Andrey:
>>>>                You looked for a very complex (foreign) project
>>>>            (Chris mainboard?)
>>>>                to prove that eeschema is slow on Mac?
>>>>                Well, we know that and we told you already some
>>>>            weeks/months ago
>>>>                why it is like it is (if memory serves me right).
>>>> 
>>>>                Or, do you have an own project that is so
>>>>            ridiculously slow, that
>>>>                you can’t work with it?
>>>>                If so, please provide it so that we can analyse why
>>>>            this specific
>>>>                project behaves like that.
>>>>                If you can’t or don’t want to provide it we could
>>>>            tell you how to
>>>>                do some performance measurements so that we might see
>>>>            something.
>>>> 
>>>>                Obviously, there are a number of Mac users here and
>>>>            also over at
>>>>                the KiCad forum who might also be happy to get some more
>>>>                performance here and there, but who are in general
>>>>            reasonably able
>>>>                to work on their projects (including myself, on a
>>>>            2012 Retina
>>>>                MacBook with only an i5).
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>                Regards,
>>>>                Bernhard
>>>> 
>>>>                > On 2. Mar 2018, at 17:59, Andy Peters
>>>>            <devel@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:devel@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:devel@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:devel@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>                <mailto:devel@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:devel@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:devel@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:devel@xxxxxxxxx>>>> wrote:
>>>>                >
>>>>                >
>>>>                >
>>>>                >> On Mar 1, 2018, at 8:53 PM, Seth Hillbrand
>>>>                <seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>            <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>            <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>            <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx>>>> wrote:
>>>>                >>
>>>>                >> Andrey-
>>>>                >>
>>>>                >> I'm moving this to a new thread so that we don't
>>>>            conflate the
>>>>                OpenMP discussion with this.
>>>>                >>
>>>>                >> Can you test running Kicad with the "Open in Low
>>>>            Resolution"
>>>>                mode enabled?  You can activate this by choosing "Get
>>>>            Info" on the
>>>>                main KiCad application and checking the option that
>>>>            says "Open in
>>>>                Low Resolution".  You may need to do the same for the
>>>>            other
>>>>                applications (Eeschema, pcbnew, etc) as well.
>>>>                >
>>>>                > testing on my 2017” touch-bar MBP …
>>>>                >
>>>>                > Good g-d, low-res mode looks fuzzy and weird!
>>>>                >
>>>>                > I don’t notice any specific differences in EESchema
>>>>            performance.
>>>>                Maybe my schematic isn’t busy enough? I’m a fan of
>>>>            using more
>>>>                smaller sheets with less info on each than one big
>>>>            sheet with
>>>>                everything.
>>>>                >
>>>>                > I know, anecdote is not evidence.
>>>>                >
>>>>                > -a
>>>>                >
>>>>                >
>>>>                >>
>>>>                >> -Seth
>>>>                >>
>>>>                >> ​​2018-03-01 18:09 GMT-08:00 Andrey Kuznetsov
>>>>                <kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>            <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>>>>:
>>>>                >> Hi,
>>>>                >>
>>>>                >> So for now I've had a chance to test the
>>>>            motherboard project on
>>>>                my Retina macbook display.
>>>>                >> eeschema: horrible zoom, feels like elastic band
>>>>            zoom and I
>>>>                have all scroll wheel accelerations and similar
>>>>            disabled, zoom
>>>>                response is super laggy, cannot work like this, will
>>>>            need to make
>>>>                schematics on windows.
>>>>                >> pcbnew by order of slowness:
>>>>                >> legacy - pretty slow, zoom lag is major, boo boo
>>>>                >> modern (fallback) - decent, but the lag can be
>>>>            felt, zoom lag
>>>>                is minor
>>>>                >> modern (accelerated) - almost cannot feel the lag,
>>>>            very nice,
>>>>                nice zoom responsiveness
>>>>                >>
>>>>                >> I'll report tomorrow on 5K LG display.
>>>>                >> ​
>>>>                >
>>>>                >
>>>>                > _______________________________________________
>>>>                > Mailing list:
>>>>            https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>            <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>>
>>>>                <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>            <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>>>
>>>>                > Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>            <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>                <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>            <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>
>>>>                > Unsubscribe :
>>>>            https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>            <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>>
>>>>                <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>            <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>>>
>>>>                > More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>            <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>>
>>>>                <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>            <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>                _______________________________________________
>>>>                Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>            <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>>
>>>>                <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>            <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>>>
>>>>                Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>            <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>                <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>            <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>
>>>>                Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>            <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>>
>>>>                <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>            <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>>>
>>>>                More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>            <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>>
>>>>                <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>            <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>            -- 
>>>>            Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future
>>>>            Those who look only to the past or the present are
>>>>            certain to miss the future [JFK]
>>>> 
>>>>            kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>            <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>>>
>>>>            Live Long and Prosper,
>>>>            Andrey
>>>>            _______________________________________________
>>>>            Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>            <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>>
>>>>            Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>            <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>            <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>            <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>>
>>>>            Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>            <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>>
>>>>            More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>            <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>        _______________________________________________
>>>>        Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>        <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>>
>>>>        Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>        <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>        Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>        <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>>
>>>>        More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>        <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>>    _______________________________________________
>>>>    Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>    <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>>
>>>>    Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>>    <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>>>    Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>>    <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>>
>>>>    More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>>>    <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>>
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> 
>>>> -- 
>>>> Remember The Past, Live The Present, Change The Future
>>>> Those who look only to the past or the present are certain to miss
>>>> the future [JFK]
>>>> 
>>>> kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx> <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kandrey89@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> Live Long and Prosper,
>>>> Andrey
>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>> <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>>
>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> _______________________________________________
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>
>> 
> 
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <mailto:kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers <https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers>
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp <https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp>