kicad-developers team mailing list archive

["kristoffer Ödmark" <kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>]

I obvviously disagree, the correct solution would be to have both. This 
does not hinder that, its not even the same problem.

The problem is for everyone who want for example the Manufacturer Part 
Number will have to define a fieldname, which every time
results in them abbreviating it to something different. Hence nobody can 
work with Manufacturer Part Numbers.

Here is something similar, Imagine all of the colours in Kicad for all 
of the layers where white by default. Have fun defining all the colours 
yourself.
Maybe you want to define them yourself, nobody is stopping you now 
either, just get cracking.

How easy would it be for you to look at the board someone else made 
later and understand what is what? Maybe for some that is a better 
solution, but for me that
would be an extreme example of bad default values.

This is how the default fields are now, they are white, or more like 
see-throught, which makes life harder for anyone that
wants to contribute or create tools that interact with kicad, and as I 
previously said, this is only a default, you are still
equally able to add/remove or change the fields how you want to. But, 
tools like kibom or various other web-based tools can much
easier integrate to it, or at least support a default value as well. So 
for the majority of users, who doesnt change defaults,
the tool would just work.

I will reiterate, I do not care what they are named, I want a default 
field where I can put my manufacturer part number, amongs others.
The specific abbreviation or name does not matter, If i care, I can 
manually add/remove my own fields *JUST AS I DO NOW*, but for the people
who use it, it will be easier across projects, for the people that dont, 
It will not matter.

Sane defaults matter. A lot actually.

- Kristoffer

On 2018-05-20 23:40, José Ignacio wrote:
> I dont like this, the right solution would be to allow for importing a 
> default config into kicad for things like that, as different groups 
> will have different policies.
>
> On Sun, May 20, 2018 at 3:31 PM, Kristoffer Ödmark 
> <kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>> 
> wrote:
>
>     The patch should only affect first startup, changes to the fields
>     will be saved
>
>     On May 20, 2018 22:18, "Seth Hillbrand" <seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx
>     <mailto:seth.hillbrand@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>
>         ​Hi Kristoffer-
>
>         This feels like a management issue rather than a tool issue. 
>         If the user doesn't want any extra fields, how would your
>         patch allow that?
>
>         -S
>
>
>         Am So., 20. Mai 2018 um 13:00 Uhr schrieb kristoffer Ödmark
>         <kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx
>         <mailto:kristofferodmark90@xxxxxxxxx>>:
>
>             Hello!
>
>             I will open this can of worms again, I feel that I have
>             to. So from what
>             I gather we have proffessionals as the main aim in Kicad.
>             The reason I will open this issue again is that I feel we
>             have a
>             collaboration issue, maybe not a mayor one. But one
>             nonetheless.
>
>             We really need more default fields for our schematic
>             symbols. Im not
>             proposing required fields, I am *ONLY* proposing that
>             there should be default fields added into the default
>             fields settings
>             tab. I am not proposing they need to be filled in the
>             libraries, nor that people need to use them. only that
>             they need to
>             exist with a fresh install of kicad so that easy problems
>             such as theese do not happen:
>
>                  - Collaborators working on the same project will not
>             create
>             duplicate fields in libs/projects describing the same
>             thing by mistake
>                  - Projects that aim to interact or add to Kicad can
>             assume that the
>             Fields will exist, and will know what name/tag to look for
>                    (bom exporters, price checkers, MacroFab, etc)
>                  - Open source projects will be easier to collaborate,
>             read and order
>
>             The reason I think it is better to have the fields by
>             default than the
>             current solution to add them is that the majority will use
>             what exists, and tools can support it from the very
>             beginning, people
>             with inhouse tools seems to dislike this, since they map their
>             parts with an inhouse number - and then handle the
>             information about the
>             part there. From what I gather, this is not the majority, and
>             these persons still modify the default fields settings.
>
>             I spent maybe 30-40 mins checking the "made with kicad"
>             projects, I
>             found that the most common addition to libs and schematics
>             are:
>                  - Manufacturers part number, these were named widely
>             different in
>             projects, (BOM, MP, MPN, #mfg, or different syntaxes in
>             the Value field )
>                      I even saw a mix of these in the same project
>             once, along with
>             some people having the vendor id only.
>                  - Manufacturer ( found some different languages though )
>
>             more uncommon things was, Tolerance( 10%, 20pps), Ratings
>             ( 1/4W, 85C,
>             16V ), Vendor information and different Descriptions. They
>             were named
>             and abbreviated
>             very differently accross projects.
>
>             What I would like to see is these additional fields by
>             default, but
>             hidden from the schematic unless changed by user.
>                  Tolerance ( used for setting tolerances of resistors,
>             capacitors,
>             oscillators, etc )
>                  MaxRating ( field were one can specify max Voltage,
>             Ampere,
>             Frequency, or whatever the component needs )
>                  Manufacturer ( For inhouse numbers, they could either
>             just remove
>             it, or use the company/group name )
>                  MPN ( Maybe PartNumber could be used here, and people
>             who use
>             inhouse numbers use it aswell, I dont really care what its
>             called, as
>             long as its called something )
>                  Vendor
>                  Notes
>
>             I would be all up for extra additions/removals, but I
>             would prefer if
>             the naming is not discussed, but rather just
>             decided/agreed upon by
>             someone in the lead team.
>             The very least I think should be added in case the
>             previous is to much are:
>                  Tolerance
>                  Manufacturer
>                  MPN
>
>             I attach a patch for the minimal set, tested on linux by
>             removing the
>             .config/kicad/eeschema file.
>
>             - Kristoffer
>
>
>             ps
>             Some github files i reviewed, not all:
>             https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/anavi-gardening/blob/master/MCP3002-I_SN.lib
>             <https://github.com/AnaviTechnology/anavi-gardening/blob/master/MCP3002-I_SN.lib>
>             https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/blob/master/Blixten%20LED%20Device/Blixten.sch
>             <https://github.com/jonpe960/blixten/blob/master/Blixten%20LED%20Device/Blixten.sch>
>             https://github.com/paltatech/half-bridge/blob/master/pcb%20design/IGBT_board-cache.lib
>             <https://github.com/paltatech/half-bridge/blob/master/pcb%20design/IGBT_board-cache.lib>
>             https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/blob/master/sch/cap_smd.lib
>             <https://github.com/pluggee/KiCADLibs/blob/master/sch/cap_smd.lib>
>             https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob/master/schematic_pcb/electronic_design_kicad/electronic_design_kicad.sch
>             <https://github.com/jim17/memtype/blob/master/schematic_pcb/electronic_design_kicad/electronic_design_kicad.sch>
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