kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Nick Østergaard <oe.nick@xxxxxxxxx>]

I don't think we gain anything by adding more complexity to the
download page. It is after all just a download page.

If we really need to do very step-by-step and verbose explanations for
those can't can't read the README in the installer, I think that is
better suited in a chapter of the documentation, possible as a big
section in the Getting Started in KiCad doc. Having it in the
documentation will also make it easier to translate.

Also, don't forget that as it is now works for all other people, than
a small handful of people. We can't help everyone always.

On Sat, 25 Apr 2020 at 09:31, Rene Pöschl <poeschlr@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
> And again,
>
> Sorry forgot to add this. There seem to be some problems for some users
> on Catalina. I am not sure if what got suggested on the forum [1] is the
> correct way to install KiCad on Catalina. Would be great if somebody
> knowledgeable would double check the proposed solutions and possibly
> clarify the exact workflow. I think it would then be beneficial if that
> cleaned up info would also be found on the Mac download page.
>
> [1]: https://forum.kicad.info/t/solved-kicad-on-catalina/22189
>
> On 25/04/2020 08:50, Rene Pöschl wrote:
> > Hi again,
> >
> > might it be a good idea to add the content of the Readme to the download
> > page? That way it would bring the Mac download page to the standard of
> > the ubuntu one. (That page also explains the "normal" way to install
> > from a third party source.) Even better would be if screenshots are
> > included as the process is done in a graphical interface.
> >
> > My reasoning here would be that having this info clearly visible without
> > needing to download anything would help anyone that needs to help others
> > install software on any platform. So the forum users, teachers and
> > possibly even the IT guys in companies might benefit from such detailed
> > explanations.
> >
> > I would assume there might be differences depending on Mac version which
> > is why i first ask here instead of just copying the content of adams
> > mail into a pull request on the website repo.
> >
> > On 24/04/2020 17:31, Adam Wolf wrote:
> >> Hi folks,
> >>
> >> Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Rene.
> >>
> >> I have attached two images, one showing what "normal" macOS
> >> installation looks like, and what ours looks like.
> >>
> >> Our situation is not very far from normal and I would hesitate to call
> >> it "manual" copying.  I do not know what they're talking about, but it
> >> is not correct that you need to use a terminal or something to run
> >> commands to install KiCad on macOS.
> >>
> >> When we surveyed users ~5 years ago when I revamped the macOS
> >> packaging, users were overwhelmingly in favor of this method vs a pkg.
> >> Pkgs have a bad reputation for doing bad stuff to your system--like
> >> Zoom just did.
> >>
> >> There is also a README right when you open the DMG that explains step
> >> by step what to do:
> >>
> >> """
> >> To install KiCad, click and drag the two directory icons to the
> >> targets pointed at by the arrows.
> >>
> >> After dropping kicad onto Application Support, you may be asked to
> >> authenticate with an administrator username and password.  This
> >> installs the support files for KiCad for all users on the system.
> >>
> >> KiCad is now installed!  Inside of /Applications will be a directory
> >> called KiCad, and inside of that are all the programs in KiCad.  The
> >> project manager is the one labeled kicad, and is probably where you
> >> want to start.
> >>
> >> When you open the KiCad apps the first time, you must right-click on
> >> them and select Open.  You only need to do this once.  You must open
> >> KiCad first before opening the standalone apps, or else the standalone
> >> apps won't be able to open up due to macOS quarantining.
> >> """
> >>
> >> If someone wants to write a homebrew cask for using the mac DMG, I
> >> suspect it would only be an hour or so total, and then users could
> >> install with a single command in just a few minutes (however long it
> >> takes to download the DMG).  Previously, another developer made a
> >> homebrew recipe but it did not have a bottle, so it took hours to
> >> install on a user's computers.  This was before homebrew casks which
> >> should solve this problem.
> >>
> >> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 9:35 AM Jon Evans <jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>> I believe these users are talking about the normal MacOS method of installing software,
> >>> which does typically involve copying files.
> >>>
> >>> Normally MacOS software is packaged as a disk image that is mounted when you double click it.
> >>>
> >>> The mounted image then normally contains the software to be installed, and shortcuts
> >>> that are used as drop targets for a "drag and drop" copy.
> >>>
> >>> Most software only has one "file" (the .app file, which is actually a directory)
> >>> That file is copied to the Applications folder on the user's system.
> >>>
> >>> KiCad's installation also involves copying a second folder to a privileged location (Application Support),
> >>> so the user will be prompted for authentication when they do this step.
> >>>
> >>> This part of the approach is not very common for commercial MacOS software.
> >>> Software that must install to privileged locations typically ships as a binary installer with a wizard,
> >>> more like what you would typically see on a Windows machine.
> >>>
> >>> I am not familiar enough with the MacOS packaging to know if there is any potential for KiCad
> >>> to have a single app file that just gets copied to Applications in the future.
> >>>
> >>> If we want to do fancy things such as write-protecting certain parts,
> >>> probably the best bet would be to build a MacOS installer wizard (a PKG file).
> >>> But, I don't know the details there either or if there are reasons we cannot / should not.
> >>>
> >>> -Jon
> >>>
> >>> On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:22 AM Rene Pöschl <poeschlr@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >>>> Hi all but especially adam,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> lately there where a few threads on the forum where installation on Mac
> >>>> came up. The users reported that they installed KiCad by manually
> >>>> copying files around which sounded wrong to me. But as a lot of users
> >>>> seem to be under the impression that this is indeed the right way i am
> >>>> now starting to believe them.
> >>>>
> >>>> If these users are really correct then maybe this should be documented
> >>>> very clearly on our download page. Or if there is any option to automate
> >>>> this process (reducing human error) then maybe this would be the better
> >>>> way to go long term but until then it should still be documented what
> >>>> needs to be copied.
> >>>>
> >>>> One problem i see is if users can copy KiCad files then the libs might
> >>>> not be write protected which would be a problem as KiCad relies on the
> >>>> operating system write protection to avoid users modifying the shipped
> >>>> libraries.
> >>>>
> >>>>
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> >
>
>
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