kicad-developers team mailing list archive

[Adam Wolf <adamwolf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi folks,

I do not believe that the users on that forum are correct about Catalina.
You do not need to chmod anything, for instance.

I mean this in the kindest way, but I am not sure how to solve the issue of
users authoritatively suggesting random things when someone else has a
problem :). I do not have the KiCad bandwidth to post on the forum that "if
you have to do something that isn't in the README, either it's a bug that
should be reported, or you're doing something you don't need to do" but
maybe other folks on this list who do enjoy following the forum can help me
with that.

I am slightly against adding more to the download page, because if users
ignore the large text that says "Open the readme for installation
instructions", I suspect they're going to ignore a wall of text on the
download page and just look for the links and start downloading.  It also
makes it look like we have a weird, unusual installation process, when our
installation process is so typical that the vast majority of Mac users
installing our software skip reading any instructions and install it just
fine.

Because of the lack of notarization, when you install kicad, you have to
run the main kicad program first before running things like pcbnew.  I have
notarization working as of February but some offlist stuff has to get
resolved about which certificates I use for public distribution....

The "you have to run kicad first, once" situation has been the same for 4+
years.  We typically get a small handful of complaints a year, and so far
they have all been solved with "Please make sure you have run kicad.app
once first before running things like pcbnew.app." and then we get a happy
"it works!".

As I said before, this notarization thing is solved as of early February,
but needs a little more organizational support before it can be given to
the public.


Adam Wolf

On Sat, Apr 25, 2020, 7:10 AM Michael Kavanagh <michael@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
wrote:

> Hi Adam,
>
> Looks like KiCad already has a Cask:
> https://github.com/Homebrew/homebrew-cask/blob/master/Casks/kicad.rb.
>
> On Fri, 24 Apr 2020 at 16:32, Adam Wolf <adamwolf@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> >
> > Hi folks,
> >
> > Thanks for bringing this to my attention, Rene.
> >
> > I have attached two images, one showing what "normal" macOS
> > installation looks like, and what ours looks like.
> >
> > Our situation is not very far from normal and I would hesitate to call
> > it "manual" copying.  I do not know what they're talking about, but it
> > is not correct that you need to use a terminal or something to run
> > commands to install KiCad on macOS.
> >
> > When we surveyed users ~5 years ago when I revamped the macOS
> > packaging, users were overwhelmingly in favor of this method vs a pkg.
> > Pkgs have a bad reputation for doing bad stuff to your system--like
> > Zoom just did.
> >
> > There is also a README right when you open the DMG that explains step
> > by step what to do:
> >
> > """
> > To install KiCad, click and drag the two directory icons to the
> > targets pointed at by the arrows.
> >
> > After dropping kicad onto Application Support, you may be asked to
> > authenticate with an administrator username and password.  This
> > installs the support files for KiCad for all users on the system.
> >
> > KiCad is now installed!  Inside of /Applications will be a directory
> > called KiCad, and inside of that are all the programs in KiCad.  The
> > project manager is the one labeled kicad, and is probably where you
> > want to start.
> >
> > When you open the KiCad apps the first time, you must right-click on
> > them and select Open.  You only need to do this once.  You must open
> > KiCad first before opening the standalone apps, or else the standalone
> > apps won't be able to open up due to macOS quarantining.
> > """
> >
> > If someone wants to write a homebrew cask for using the mac DMG, I
> > suspect it would only be an hour or so total, and then users could
> > install with a single command in just a few minutes (however long it
> > takes to download the DMG).  Previously, another developer made a
> > homebrew recipe but it did not have a bottle, so it took hours to
> > install on a user's computers.  This was before homebrew casks which
> > should solve this problem.
> >
> > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 9:35 AM Jon Evans <jon@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > >
> > > I believe these users are talking about the normal MacOS method of
> installing software,
> > > which does typically involve copying files.
> > >
> > > Normally MacOS software is packaged as a disk image that is mounted
> when you double click it.
> > >
> > > The mounted image then normally contains the software to be installed,
> and shortcuts
> > > that are used as drop targets for a "drag and drop" copy.
> > >
> > > Most software only has one "file" (the .app file, which is actually a
> directory)
> > > That file is copied to the Applications folder on the user's system.
> > >
> > > KiCad's installation also involves copying a second folder to a
> privileged location (Application Support),
> > > so the user will be prompted for authentication when they do this step.
> > >
> > > This part of the approach is not very common for commercial MacOS
> software.
> > > Software that must install to privileged locations typically ships as
> a binary installer with a wizard,
> > > more like what you would typically see on a Windows machine.
> > >
> > > I am not familiar enough with the MacOS packaging to know if there is
> any potential for KiCad
> > > to have a single app file that just gets copied to Applications in the
> future.
> > >
> > > If we want to do fancy things such as write-protecting certain parts,
> > > probably the best bet would be to build a MacOS installer wizard (a
> PKG file).
> > > But, I don't know the details there either or if there are reasons we
> cannot / should not.
> > >
> > > -Jon
> > >
> > > On Fri, Apr 24, 2020 at 10:22 AM Rene Pöschl <poeschlr@xxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
> > >>
> > >> Hi all but especially adam,
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> lately there where a few threads on the forum where installation on
> Mac
> > >> came up. The users reported that they installed KiCad by manually
> > >> copying files around which sounded wrong to me. But as a lot of users
> > >> seem to be under the impression that this is indeed the right way i am
> > >> now starting to believe them.
> > >>
> > >> If these users are really correct then maybe this should be documented
> > >> very clearly on our download page. Or if there is any option to
> automate
> > >> this process (reducing human error) then maybe this would be the
> better
> > >> way to go long term but until then it should still be documented what
> > >> needs to be copied.
> > >>
> > >> One problem i see is if users can copy KiCad files then the libs might
> > >> not be write protected which would be a problem as KiCad relies on the
> > >> operating system write protection to avoid users modifying the shipped
> > >> libraries.
> > >>
> > >>
> > >> _______________________________________________
> > >> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> > >> Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > >> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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> > >
> > > _______________________________________________
> > > Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
> > > Post to     : kicad-developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~kicad-developers
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> > _______________________________________________
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>