kubuntu-council team mailing list archive

[Myriam Schweingruber <myriam@xxxxxxx>]

Dear all,

On Tue, Jun 16, 2015 at 10:26 AM, Valorie Zimmerman
<valorie-zimmerman@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On Mon, Jun 15, 2015 at 1:43 PM, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> In parallel to Valorie's response, I was having this discussion.
>>
>> One of the points from my discussion with Mark was that he wanted to have a
>> joint CC/KC (+ jr) meeting on how we move forward from here, so this is what
>> they have suggested.
>>
>> Personally, I don't see much point in a meeting to rehash how fubar the
>> situation is.  Thoughts?
>>
>> Scott K
>
> While that article remains posted on the Fridge, i do not.
>
> My reasoning: while that is posted, it is their framing of the
> situation. They have heard our thinking, but none of *that* is posted.
> Therefore, not only are they stuck in their position, they are not
> listening to us, or anybody else.
>
> A dialog takes two, at minimum.

Agreed, is that article still up? How sad...

Also, the agenda of the meeting sounds like the CC is doing all the
talking? I am not interested in hearing their side again and again,
and we have said what we have to say, so why would we have to go
through that again for over an hour? Doesn't seem like a good idea and
I have better things to do with my time.

To have a constructive meeting we would like to hear from them if they
really understood our POV first, that apparently doesn't seem the case
at all.

As long as they camp on their positions and don't even have the
slightest feeling that they did something wrong I don't see how this
can be a good starting point for a meeting.

Will there be an external moderator?

Regards, Myriam


>
>> ----------  Forwarded Message  ----------
>>
>> Subject: Re: Mail to TB and clarification of fridge posting
>> Date: Monday, June 15, 2015, 09:03:22 PM
>> From: Laura Czajkowski <laura@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>> To: Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>, Community Council <community-
>> council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>>
>> Hi Scott, my apologies I had over looked that mail. Please find the
>> suggested agenda for our catch up, can you please let me know what
>> day/time suits the KC and we can work around that.
>>
>> Agenda:
>>   1) 30 mins perspective on how we got here, from both sides
>>   2) 30 mins governance expectations, update from the CC on it's plan to
>> update its Governance role going forward.
>>   3) 30 mins plan going forward
>>   4) AOB
>>
>>
>> Laura
>>
>>
>> On 15/06/15 12:37, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>>> What I said in my last mail to this list on June 11 still applies:
>>>
>>>> OK.  I think that absent a structured agenda, such a discussion has a
>>>> substantial risk of devolving into rehashing recent events.  It's obvious
>>>> that there's still substantial emotional charge behind this for people from
>>>> both groups (myself included).
>>>>
>>>> I would suggest that we proceed on the basis of the CC developing a
>> proposed
>>>> agenda for the discussion and send out an invitation.  I'd suggest the
>>>> agenda if I knew what all to put on it, but I'd start with an update on the
>>>> governance changes to bring the TB members in to deal with cases where the
>>>> CC has a conflict of interest.  I'm not sure what help the KC needs from the
>>>> CC to map out a path forward for Kubuntu, so if you're offering something
>>>> specific, I'd frame it in those terms.
>>> Scott K
>>>
>>> On Monday, June 15, 2015 10:23:58 AM Laura Czajkowski wrote:
>>>> Hi Scott,
>>>>
>>>> We'd love to take the next step forward and finding a suitable day/time
>>>> for us to all talk, are there any days/times that are not suitable for
>>>> us to meet. Perhaps if you could talk to the KC and let us know what
>>>> times work for you folks and then we can work around that
>>>>
>>>> thanks
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Laura
>>>>
>>>> On 10/06/15 01:56, Scott Kitterman wrote:
>>>>> Sigh.
>>>>>
>>>>> Regardless of what Jonathan did or did not do, I think the CC made a
>>>>> complete hash of how they handled it.  If you want to claim the
>>>>> unprofessional mess on the Fridge is the KC's fault, I suggest you think
>>>>> it through.
>>>>>
>>>>> We'll all be better if you stop trying to through blame around.
>>>>>
>>>>> Scott K
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tuesday, June 09, 2015 10:03:01 AM Charles Profitt wrote:
>>>>>> The post to the Fridge was something that the CC asked to be done.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> We had one document that went to the KC and one that was made public. We
>>>>>> went public as an answer to the public call from the KC for more detail
>>>>>> and
>>>>>> clarity on what our process had been. That document was worked on by most
>>>>>> (if not all) members of the CC through five drafts. We would not have
>>>>>> made
>>>>>> a public statement if the issue had not been brought forward to the
>>>>>> public
>>>>>> by the KC.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ---- On Tue, 09 Jun 2015 08:02:13 -0700 Mark Shuttleworth
>>>>>> &lt;mark@xxxxxxxxxx&gt; wrote ----
>>>>>>
>>>>>>     Hi Scott
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    I've written to the TB to ask their perspective on a potential call on
>>>>>>    them
>>>>>>
>>>>>> to provide independent heads to arbitrate cases where the CC - or a
>>>>>> substantial majority of them - are conflicted or the complainant in a
>>>>>> dispute.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Also, I added a comment to the Fridge article below Jonathan's
>>>>>>    clarifying
>>>>>>
>>>>>> that the fridge posting was not intended or orchestrated by the CC and
>>>>>> expressing regret that it happened.
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    http://fridge.ubuntu.com/2015/05/29/community-council-statement-jonatha
>>>>>>    n-ri
>>>>>>
>>>>>> ddell/comment-page-1/#comment-797056
>>>>>>
>>>>>>    Mark
>>>>>>
>>>>>> community-council mailing list
>>>>>> community-council@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>> https://lists.ubuntu.com/mailman/listinfo/community-council
>>>
>>
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