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Re: Please advert your attention to this Kubuntu member's statement

 

Charles,

A few responses to your responses.

> Ben:
> A few responses to yours.
>On Sat, 2015-07-18 at 16:42 -0700, Benjamin Kerensa wrote:
> Charles,
>
> I don't believe anything I said was inaccurate and yes I did use
> profanity but as its been explained to me profanity in and of itself
> is not a violation of the Code of Conduct. That said this remark was
> made on a third-party site not subject to the Ubuntu Code of Conduct
> but that values freedom of expression and does not prohibit such
> vernacular.
 >1. I never said there was a CoC violation, nor did I imply it.
 >2. Accuracy has no affect on 'tone'.
 >3. I was not aware that the Code of Conduct was limited in the fashion
 >you imply.

1. Then why bring this up in a governance boars public mailing list?
Why not email me privately? I thought the CC defaulted to private
conversations (now your confusing me).

2. I do not owe any politeness on my personal social media accounts
that are outside the realm of Ubuntu
3. Well last time I checked that was the case... I remember when Mark
wanted to once forced OMG Ubuntu to apply the CoC there until
community and I believe the CC at the time told him the CoC cannot be
enforced on sites and place that are not part of the community. If the
CoC did apply outside the community I think a fair amount of our
membership would probably breach the CoC.


> I would appreciate Charles if you adverted more attention to the
> decline in participation identified as a problem here:
>
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/ubuntu-community-team/2015-July/000661.html
>

 >My attention is already on that issue. I am glad you are paying
 >attention to it as well. Being more careful in ones choice of words and
 >the tone of their communications when discussing issues that affect
 >participation would be helpful with the issue of participation as well.
 >A hostile environment is not a place that new people will find
 >attractive to participate in.

Well then it seems being a good advocate and upholding the Ubuntu
values and not unnecessarily tracking and trying to censor and chill
people who disagree with the CC on topics might be a first start. I
can tell you from discussions I have had with contributors that have
left the project that both Canonical overreach and attempts to censor
and the CC defending Canonical has created quite the division.

> Notably several former governance members have said on social media in
> a nutshell that they stopped participating because of the issues I
> raised.

>Noted. I am not sure your wording was necessary to convey that point.
>
> Most recently insulted on a mailing list by a community council member
> but of course the CC had no issue with that and no reply asking that
> person to be mindful of the CoC was sent:
> https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/xubuntu-devel/2015-June/010801.html

 >Perhaps it slipped your notice that the person is no longer on the CC. I
 >am also positive you are not aware of any private communications
 >regarding the matter so you can not, honestly, say that the CC had no
 >issue with that. The fact that you were insulted also does not make it
 >right for you to do the same.

Oh sorry the only remarks I have seen publicly from the CC is how sad
they were to lose Elfy not how he shouldn't have said something like
that. Also as far as I can tell you didn't reply to that thread and
say its in appropriate for members of the CC make remarks like that
because he was still a CC member at the time wasn't he? Either way it
seems hypocritical here you coming to the KC on something you contend
may not violate the CC but when it comes to a CC member current or
former making a comment like that nothing is said publicly. See the
problem here?

 >As a side note, I mailed this to the KC list based on the expressed
 >desire for discussions such as these to be public. Normally, I would
 >have sent you a private email or touched based with you on IRC.

Again see above for why this is confusing and there is a lack of
consistency even in recent.

> This pretty much amounts to you asking the Kubuntu Counsel to ask me
> to self censor.

 >Choosing different words to make your point is not equivalent to self
 >censoring in my opinion. If you wish to be bombastic and abrasive that
 >is your choice. It is not the way I would chose to operate and not the
 >way I would advise a friend to operate.

Why else would you ask the KC to counsel me if I had not violated the
CoC? The KC nor the CC has any authority to police or counsel members
for things they do outside of the community.

>
> I'll just leave these right here:
> https://twitter.com/OpenSourceOrg/status/622491796203900928?s=09
>
> https://twitter.com/zacchiro/status/622506047568097280?s=09
>
> https://twitter.com/zacchiro/status/622504936719282176?s=09
>
> Seriously take a clue the CC is supposed to lead and advocate for
> community and has not done that on this issue. You censored us and
> demotivated hundreds of contributors and other orgs and projects have
> realized this.

 >In my opinion no one was censored. People were asked to be respectful
 >and polite.

I didn't say you censored me but the act was clearly and attempt to
chill or censor

> Are you going to strip my status next and make me more of an outcast
> than I already feel like for standing up for what is right? For things
> you should be standing up for?

>Huh? I do not have such powers, nor was it suggested.

Well the CC did it to Jonathan because he was persistent in his
advocacy but I guess we disagree on that too.

> Its sad when I can honestly say no other open source project or
> project governance would engage in such a campaign of censorship.

 >I would disagree that there has been any campaign of censorship. There
 >was an effort to ask people to be more respectful and polite.

I find it disrespect when you try and chill comments I make on third
party sites maybe I will have to create a pseudonym to have privacy
and respect.

> Disclaimer: These remarks are my own and do not reflect the Kubuntu
> Council or Community or any project or organization I associate with.
>
 >Now, the question remains. Do you want to work together or simply thrash
 >about making bombastic and abrasive statements.

I'm not going to reply to this bait.

 >I ask that you stop seeing this as an adversarial relationship and try
 >to help move the relationship forward in a collaborative manner.
 >
 >Charles

I do no find any adversarial relationship simply people trying to
advocate for what is right and ask their elected peers to advocate for
what is right and getting upset when the elected peers fail to act
after two years.

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