launchpad-dev team mailing list archive

[Brad Crittenden <bac@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

= Describe ReviewerMeeting20090805 =

== summary ==

 * Karl joined us to talk about the work he did last week in writing  
wiki pages to explain the community member contribution process.
     * The pages are at:
       * https://dev.launchpad.net/FixBugs
       * https://dev.launchpad.net/PatchSubmission
     * with links from:
       * https://dev.launchpad.net/
       * https://dev.launchpad.net/Help
     * It was agreed the pages are an excellent start.  There was  
some discussion about what to name the unit of work people submit  
(patch, branch, change, changeset).  In the end ''patch'' was kept  
with the understanding it would be fully explained to be a Bzr branch  
not an actual patch as used by the {{{patch}}} utility.

 * Rockstar lauded the work of Leonard and declared him graduated as  
a full-fledged Launchpad Reviewer, earning all of the rights and  
responsibilities of the title, namely not having to bother Rockstar to  
mentor his work.  Congratulations Leonard.
 * We noted that with Leonard's graduation '''all''' Launchpad  
developers are now reviewers!  MWH pointed out that's a clear  
indication we need to do some more hiring.  Congratulations everyone.

== logs ==

=== ameu ===

{{{
[15:00] <bac> #startmeeting
[15:00] <MootBot> Meeting started at 09:00. The chair is bac.
[15:00] <MootBot> Commands Available: [TOPIC], [IDEA], [ACTION],  
[AGREED], [LINK], [VOTE]
[15:00] <bac> hello everyone and welcome to the AMEU reviewer's meeting.
[15:00] <bac> who is here today?  team leads will you help me round up  
your folks who may be tardy?
[15:00] <gary_poster> me, me me!
[15:00] <bigjools> me
[15:00] <rockstar> ni!
[15:00] <noodles775> me
[15:00] <henninge> ich
[15:00] <leonardr> me
[15:00] <kfogel> hey
[15:01] <sinzui> me
[15:01] <bigjools> soyuz non-vacationing/non-seconded team members all  
correct and present SAH
[15:01] <abentley> me
[15:01] <bac> sinzui, EdwinGrubbs, salgado: registry team ping
[15:01] <rockstar> Code's here.
[15:01] <bac> sorry sinzu
[15:01] <bac> i
[15:01] <sinzui> o
[15:01] <sinzui> u
[15:02] <salgado> me!
[15:02] <EdwinGrubbs> me
[15:02] <bac> thanks bigjools
[15:02] <allenap> me
[15:02] <mars> me
[15:02] <bac> henninge: any more bug folks?
[15:02] <bigjools> bac: o7
[15:03] <bac> will flacoste be joining us?
[15:03] <flacoste> i am
[15:03] <flacoste> me
[15:03] <henninge> bac: you mean translations? danilos?
[15:03] <bac> welcome back flacoste!
[15:03] <bac> henninge: yeah, that's what i meant.  sorry.
[15:03] <bac> allenap: any of your cohorts around?
[15:04] <allenap> bac: I've just pinged them all... let's see..
[15:04] <jtv> me
[15:04] <intellectronica> me
[15:04] <danilos> ok, ok, me too
[15:04] <danilos> :)
[15:04] <bac> welcome special guest kfogel
[15:04] <bac> [TOPIC] agenda
[15:04] <MootBot> New Topic:  agenda
[15:04]  * jtv applauds kfogel
[15:04] <bac> * Roll call
[15:04] <bac> * Apologies: None
[15:04] <bac> * Action items
[15:04] <bac> * Mentoring update (leondardr/rockstar)
[15:04] <bac> * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
[15:04] <kfogel> thanks bac, jtv
[15:05] <bac> [TOPIC] * Action items
[15:05] <bac> * Karl to update wiki about sponsoring contributions and  
take RFC to the mailing list.
[15:05] <MootBot> New Topic:  * Action items
[15:05] <kfogel> So, kfogel would like to know if that item is done or  
not.
[15:05] <kfogel> I wasn't sure what the original spec was; I  
improvised.  Thoughts, folks?
[15:05] <bac> Thanks kfogel for taking care of that item.  I read it  
and it looks good.
[15:05] <kfogel> bac: thank you.
[15:05] <salgado> where is it?
[15:05] <bac> Did anyone else get a chance to read karl's updates?
[15:06] <intellectronica> no, url?
[15:06] <kfogel> (most of the material was there already, actually --  
barry and I put it there long ago)
[15:06]  * kfogel finds urls...
[15:06] <bac> https://dev.launchpad.net/FixBugs
[15:06] <kfogel> okay, three:
[15:06] <kfogel> https://dev.launchpad.net/Patches
[15:06] <kfogel> https://dev.launchpad.net/FixBugs
[15:06] <kfogel> https://dev.launchpad.net/Reviews
[15:06] <kfogel> they interlink
[15:07] <bac> kfogel: are these all new pages or just additions to  
existing ones?
[15:07] <kfogel> the first two are directly linked from the top nav  
box on the home page
[15:07] <kfogel> bac: FixBugs is a new page
[15:07] <kfogel> bac: I updated Patches (and renamed it from  
PatchSubmission); I don't think I tweaked Reviews much.
[15:08] <bac> i think this is a good start.
[15:08] <intellectronica> i think we should avoid using the word  
"patch", because it might confuse people that are familiar with diff/ 
patch but not with dvcs
[15:08] <bac> the process and our description on the wiki will evolve  
but i appreciate karl writing the first cut.
[15:08] <kfogel> I'd like to know what's missing; my email to the list  
didn't get much reaction AFAICT.
[15:09] <kfogel> Happy to add more (also happy for people to edit  
directly, of course!).
[15:09] <bac> intellectronica: do you have a suggested wording?
[15:09] <intellectronica> bac: branch
[15:09] <kfogel> intellectronica: I didn't quite understand: how will  
"patch" confuse people in that situation?
[15:09] <intellectronica> or changeset, if you want to talk about it  
in the abstract
[15:10] <kfogel> "change" ?
[15:10] <intellectronica> kfogel: they might think that we want them  
to produce a patch file, rather than a bzr branch
[15:10] <abentley> So I thought the idea was that when you wanted to  
fix a bug, for example, you found a sponsor and they guided you  
through the process, starting with some facimile of a pre- 
implementation call.
[15:10] <kfogel> intellectronica: ah.  One way might be to simply  
explain at the top of the Patches page that the end result is a bzr  
branch, not an actual patch file.
[15:10] <kfogel> I think "patch" might still be the term of art for  
changes.
[15:11] <intellectronica> kfogel: yeah, i guess just stressing that  
might be enough
[15:11] <kfogel> abentley: if that's the idea, I'd like to suggest  
that we be more lightweight.  It's certainly okay to do that, but  
people should also feel free to do more lightweight process...
[15:11] <EdwinGrubbs> The name "Patches" doesn't explain whether they  
can get patches on that page or learn how to submit patches.
[15:12] <bac> EdwinGrubbs: yeah, i think i prefer the old name  
PatchSubmission
[15:12] <kfogel> EdwinGrubbs, bac: I can revert, easy enough.
[15:12] <abentley> I try to refer to submitting a "change", rather  
than a patch.  Even that's broken, though, because we deal in  
branches, and branches represent a state, not a change.
[15:13] <kfogel> so ACTION items so far: rename back to  
PatchSubmission; explain at top of page that 'patch' means 'branch'.   
I do think sticking with the accepted term for patches would be a good  
idea.  It's what everyone uses, even when they're not trading actual  
patch files.
[15:13] <intellectronica> abentley: +1 i think change or changeset are  
good terms which are much less ambiguous
[15:13] <abentley> intellectronica: bzr doesn't have changesets, so I  
don't think that's a good term to use.
[15:14] <jtv> "improvement"?
[15:14] <intellectronica> abentley: we could call it revision, which  
is what bzr actually has, no?
[15:14] <abentley> intellectronica: But multiple revisions are often  
submitted.
[15:14] <kfogel> intellectronica: changeset is a technical term in VC;  
also, having tried to use it with lots of people, I find I often have  
to explain it.  Many people already know "patch"; those few who don't,  
once they understand it, will be permanently enabled across the  
software ecosystem.
[15:15] <intellectronica> anyway, this turning into a theological  
discussion. sorry for starting. continue on the list?
[15:15] <kfogel> Let's reinforce the existing term, not try to promote  
a new term.  (This is an old debate and an old effort, and it hasn't  
succeeded in dethroning "patch" yet, IMHO.)
[15:15] <kfogel> heh
[15:15] <deryck> I'm not sure people really get tripped up over  
thinking "patch" literally means a patch.  The generic use of the term  
seems common to me.
[15:15] <bac> intellectronica: yes, good idea.
[15:15] <kfogel> okay, let's go with the two ACTION items above.  Any  
others so far?
[15:15] <bac> thanks again to karl.  please follow up to his email if  
you have further discussion.
[15:16] <bac> [TOPIC] * Mentoring update (leondardr/rockstar)
[15:16] <MootBot> New Topic:  * Mentoring update (leondardr/rockstar)
[15:16] <bac> rockstar: you have the floor
[15:16] <rockstar> leonardr has done an amazing job as a manatee since  
day one. His reviews are insightful and exploratory. I'm happy to  
announce his graduation.
[15:16] <leonardr> yay
[15:16] <rockstar> Congratulations leonardr
[15:16] <bac> whee
[15:17] <bac> congratulations leonard.
[15:17] <noodles775> congrats leonardr !
[15:17] <bac> with his graduation we are mentat-free, i believe.
[15:17] <kfogel> leonardr++
[15:17] <bac> have we reached the goal of every developer being a  
reviewer?
[15:18] <rockstar> I believe so.
[15:19] <bac> excellent.  i think that plan was hatched in our MIT  
sprint.  congratulations everyone.
[15:19] <flacoste> and barry isn't here to join the fun!
[15:19] <flacoste> congratulations leonard
[15:19] <bac> [TOPIC] * Peanut gallery (anything not on the agenda)
[15:19] <MootBot> New Topic:  * Peanut gallery (anything not on the  
agenda)
[15:20] <bac> does anyone have another topic to discuss?
[15:21] <bac> thanks for coming everyone.  please do read the new wiki  
pages in detail and offer feedback.
[15:21] <bac> #endmeeting
}}}

=== asiapac ===

{{{
We were unable to establish a quorum so it was decided to not have a  
formal meeting.  I quickly summarized the AMEU meeting in individual  
IRC messages.
}}}