libravatar-fans team mailing list archive

[Lars Kruse <lists@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hello,

we just finished our bi-weekly IRC meeting a few minutes ago.

We discussed the following topics:
* What happened recently?
* Data migration
* Mail handling
* Project name

The summary of our discussion is in the wiki:
 https://wiki.libravatar.org/shutdown-coordination/?updated#index2h2
The full log of the IRC meeting is attached.

The next IRC meeting will happen on the 28th of October at 19:00 UTC in
#libravatar at freenode.

Cheers,
Lars

21:05 <sumpfralle1> Let us start with a review of the last two weeks.
21:06 <sumpfralle1> Is there something to report?
21:06 <sumpfralle1> I finally managed to prepare the backup storage and the mail server. fmarier has the details (sent a few minutes ago)
21:07 <clime> I've setup libravatar-stg.fedorainfracloud.org and libravatar.fedorainfracloud.org
21:07 <sumpfralle1> cool!
21:07 <sumpfralle1> Both are running the new code, correct?
21:07 <clime> yup
21:07 <sumpfralle1> good
21:08 <clime> libravatar-stg is a staging machine for development and libravat.fi.org is for future production use
21:08 <clime> I can give you access to both machines, although they are mainly managed from ansible
21:08 <sumpfralle1> I looked a bit at the ansible role. It mounts the live data (storage and database) from the local fedora infrastructure. Corect?
21:09 <clime> yes
21:09 <sumpfralle1> Is that somehow exportable? (just trying to avoid a dead-end in case of a migration)
21:10 <sumpfralle1> In other words: is it suitable for a backup outside of fedora?
21:10 <sumpfralle1> (probably simply "yes" - just asking for clarity)
21:10 <clime> can be, if we setup ssh access there and periodically dump db
21:10 <sumpfralle1> ok
21:11 <sumpfralle1> good: so the infrastructure is prepared
21:11 <sumpfralle1> Or do you see missing pieces?
21:11 <clime> i can give you ssh access for that
21:11 <sumpfralle1> great! I will send you an email.
21:11 <clime> we need to find out how to migrate current db+data into new db for new code
21:11 <clime> i.e. we need a migration script
21:12 --> fmarier_ (~francois@fsf/member/fmarier) hat den Channel #libravatar betreten
21:12 <sumpfralle1> Since both is using django, we could even try to use the django migrations?
21:12 <sumpfralle1> (with a bit of fiddling)
21:12 <clime> alright
21:13 <clime> well, we can use django migrations partially yes
21:13  * fmarier_ apologizes for being late
21:13 <clime> at least django ORM
21:13 <sumpfralle1> welcome, fmarier!
21:13 <clime> but also the new code stores images directly in db
21:14 <sumpfralle1> ok - so just the file storage would be missing?
21:14 <sumpfralle1> (to be migrated separately)
21:14 <clime> so we will need some combination of Django ORM and file reading.
21:14 <sumpfralle1> So we just need to decide, who does it?
21:15 <clime> well, ofalk is the best person if he has time
21:15 <sumpfralle1> that is a good answer :)
21:15 <sumpfralle1> I will write a mail to the mailing list asking/discussing this.
21:15 <clime> i can do it as well in case nobody else wants
21:15 <clime> alright
21:16 <sumpfralle1> Do we have other review topics?
21:17 <clime> well, no idea about any other here
21:17 <@fmarier_> Regarding email accounts, I think some people had expressed interest in having a @libravatar.org email alias
21:17 <sumpfralle1> Good topic!
21:17 <@fmarier_> But I can't seem to find my notes about it.
21:18 <sumpfralle1> yes, nipos expressed interest.
21:18 <@fmarier_> I guess we should take it to the list, but if anybody here wants one, sumpfralle1 can add it right now :)
21:18 <sumpfralle1> I am bit reluctant towards this, since SPF/DMARC/... make it harder to use forwarding properly.
21:18 <clime> i would take one if possible
21:18 <@fmarier_> Also, in my email, I forgot about the all-important security@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx.
21:19 <sumpfralle1> It is ok - but people need to know, that their provider is responsible for not having strict rules.
21:19 <sumpfralle1> security: ok
21:19 <@fmarier_> security should map to "dev" for now.
21:19 <sumpfralle1> good
21:19 <@fmarier_> just like all of the other ones, really
21:20 <sumpfralle1> yes
21:20 <sumpfralle1> Do we in general want people to use personal @libravatar mail addresses?
21:20 <sumpfralle1> (I understand the concept, but I do not use it myself.)
21:21 <@fmarier_> It's up to you, but I think it's nice to get an email from a @libravatar.org address when a user reaches out for support for example.
21:23 <sumpfralle1> SMTP-submission is the technical question, here, I guess.
21:23 <sumpfralle1> For now I did not think of having smtp-auth accounts for the domain. But it would be required for this, or?
21:25 <@fmarier_> Do you mean to let people use your mail server for outgoing mails?
21:25 <sumpfralle1> To be precise: I do not know, if other mail providers accept mails with "FROM: ...@libravatar.org"
21:25 <sumpfralle1> yes
21:25 <@fmarier_> They do at the moment.
21:25 <@fmarier_> That's what I've always done.
21:25 <sumpfralle1> I am not sure, that this is true for all of them. But OK - let us try it.
21:25 <sumpfralle1> ok
21:26 <@fmarier_> It hasn't been a problem for me before, but YMMV.
21:26 <@fmarier_> I've updated the MX records.
21:26 <sumpfralle1> cool (I am not done, with the necessary changes, yet - but I wanted to get the mail out before the meeting)
21:27 <@fmarier_> Also, the SPF record for libravatar.org is "v=spf1 +mx +a ?all"
21:27 <@fmarier_> sumpfralle1: ah ok, well, I guess there may be a few bounces until you're done then ;-)
21:27 <sumpfralle1> me is not a native SPF reader: could you please summary
21:27 <sumpfralle1> summarize
21:27 --> tleguern (50e9297b@gateway/web/freenode/ip.80.233.41.123) hat den Channel #libravatar betreten
21:27 <tleguern> I am not sure if I had a network glitch or if nobody replied, sorry
21:28 <@fmarier_> That means the MX records and the A records are whitelisted for sending mail, and everything else is neither whitelisted nor blacklistd.
21:28 <@fmarier_> So a server receiving mail from @libravatar.org should give a positive score to emails coming from MX or A, and a neutral score to everything else.
21:29 <clime> tleguern: probly a network glitch
21:29 <clime> tleguern: welcome back
21:29 <tleguern> It seems so !
21:29 <sumpfralle1> Since literally no one would be able to use the MX: should we remove the SPF record?
21:30 <@fmarier_> sumpfralle1: probably. that was in there because the domain was hosted on gapps.
21:30 <@fmarier_> I'll change it to "+a ?all".
21:30 <sumpfralle1> good
21:30 <sumpfralle1> So back to the question: do we want personal email addresses in that domain?
21:31 <@fmarier_> In the short term, we need at least one (francois@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx) because it's used in a bunch of places.
21:31 <sumpfralle1> (I see no real use and I remember, that OpenWrt had a bit of heated discussion towards private addresses and stopped using them after the re-merge)
21:32 <sumpfralle1> That is fine, of course.
21:32 <sumpfralle1> (yours)
21:32 <sumpfralle1> for not dropping existing things - not because you are special :)
21:33 <tleguern> I am not sure we need dedicated @libravatar.org email addresses, but a main contact@ pointing aliases might be good
21:33 <sumpfralle1> yes, the technical / group-oriented mail addresses are fine, of course
21:34 <@fmarier_> The current aliases are: mirrors, tls, support, dns, social, accounts, admin, abuse, postmaster, dev, security
21:34 <@fmarier_> We could add contact@ and info@
21:36 <sumpfralle1> sounds reasonable. postmaster will go to the mail hosting project (systemausfall.org). How about abuse?
21:36 <sumpfralle1> I guess, there is almost no traffic - just asking, whether we expect mail or web-related "abuse" messages.
21:37 <@fmarier_> I've never received any.
21:37 <@fmarier_> We should probably add "webmaster" too.
21:37 <tleguern> It is still "mandatory" to provide an abuse@ address, but yeah I never received anything on it either
21:37 <sumpfralle1> ok
21:37 <@fmarier_> Right now, it's setup to forward *@libravatar.org to me.
21:38 <sumpfralle1> so abuse and postmaster go to the mail project. The rest goes to dev@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx - which currently lands in fmarier's mail box.
21:39 <@fmarier_> That sounds fine for now.
21:39 <sumpfralle1> I I will send an overview to the mailing list.
21:40 <sumpfralle1> But I would like to include a statement regarding private addresses.
21:40 <sumpfralle1> Yes or no?
21:40 <@fmarier_> I'm sure we'll find other things I've forgotten later, but it's not like I'm disappearing, we can always fix those later.
21:41 <tleguern> sumpfralle1: by private addresses you mean @libravatar.org dedicated addresses or owns ?
21:41 <sumpfralle1> something like john.doe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
21:41 <@fmarier_> forwarding addresses
21:41 <tleguern> Ok.
21:42 <tleguern> I am not sure they provide much value.
21:42 <@fmarier_> It's just so you can mail someone as tleguern@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx for example, if you're resetting their password manually.
21:43 <tleguern> Hum that's true.
21:43 <@fmarier_> I'm not sure people care, but I thought it looked a bit more professional.
21:43 <@fmarier_> Or legit.
21:43 <sumpfralle1> In this case I am used to "support@" or similar for such mails.
21:43 <sumpfralle1> Otherwise people stick to "their" support contact :)
21:45 <sumpfralle1> I think, I already did put in my opinion strongly :)
21:45 <sumpfralle1> Please state your preference for a decision.
21:45 <@fmarier_> Yeah, that's a good point once you've got a team of > 1 person :)
21:46 <sumpfralle1> we hope, that we will have this for a long time :)
21:46 <tleguern> fmarier_: Do you had much need for manual password reset ?
21:47 <@fmarier_> It doesn't happen very often, no. But it does happen. Mostly because of OpenID accounts.
21:47 <@fmarier_> Usually what I do is simply delete the account and then they can re-create it.
21:48 <sumpfralle1> But this probably does not rely on a personal account - any reachable mail address is sufficient.
21:49 <tleguern> I prefer to keep only technical and required emails addresses for now. If the need arrise we can still add private ones.
21:50 <sumpfralle1> fmarier_, clime - any opinion?
21:51 <clime> sumpfralle1: i don't have much preference, having @libravatar.org would nice because it tells people i can do something about their problem immediatelly
21:53 <@fmarier_> Like clime, I'd have a weak preference for having them.
21:54 <@fmarier_> But if there are good reasons against them, I'm not opposed.
21:55 <sumpfralle1> Summarizing your statements: this feels like a slight preference towards "yes". Correct?
21:55 <@fmarier_> Yes
21:55 <clime> es
21:55 <clime> *yes
21:56 <sumpfralle1> ok
21:56 <sumpfralle1> Do we have other topics?
21:58 <@fmarier_> Quick update from me: I'm moving backups to sumpfralle1's server. Should be done in a few minutes.
21:59 <clime> cool
21:59 <sumpfralle1> great!
21:59 <sumpfralle1> And I think, mails work now. I just sent one to dev@
22:00 <sumpfralle1> There are still some open discussions on the list (e.g. regarding ivatar/libravatar) - but we should probably keep them there.
22:00 <clime> ok
22:00 <@fmarier_> Oh yes, I haven't heard anything at all regarding that.
22:01 <@fmarier_> I'm still unsure there is an actual issue here.
22:01 <sumpfralle1> Mails: my outgoind mail is greylisted (will reach soon). And there was one bounce a few minutes before.
22:01 <sumpfralle1> fmarier_: same for me
22:02 <sumpfralle1> sounds like a huge misunderstand
22:02 <sumpfralle1> ing
22:02 <@fmarier_> Indeed
22:02 <sumpfralle1> OK - so I think, we are finished for now?
22:02 <sumpfralle1> (almost within a 60 minutes range)
22:02 <clime> fmarier_: do you want more info about ivatar/libravatar thing?
22:03 <@fmarier_> Next IRC meeting in 14 days?
22:03 <sumpfralle1> IRC: yes, 28. October
22:03 <@fmarier_> clime: I responded on the bug saying that there aren't any patents or trademarks on Libravatar.
22:03 <sumpfralle1> clime: I think, the mailing list discussion would be happy about more details :)
22:03 <clime> alright, fine
22:03 <tleguern> There are none.
22:04 <tleguern> They did not even replied.
22:04 <@fmarier_> I also offered to have a phone call if that's something that's best discussed in a non-discoverable medium for whatever reason.
22:04 <@fmarier_> But from my point of view, this is the continuation of the Libravatar project, so there shouldn't be any issues at all.
22:04 <tleguern> If they don't want to provide a new logo we should just go somewhere else to have one.
22:05 <sumpfralle1> or keep the current one
22:05 <tleguern> Exactly
22:05 <clime> fmarier_: ok, cool
22:05 <sumpfralle1> So let us see, how the mailing list discussion will evolve.
22:05 <@fmarier_> Is the logo the only concern or was hosting conditional on resolving this imaginary issue as well?
22:05 <clime> i seem to have been missing some parts of this discussion so I need to catch up
22:05 <@fmarier_> If it's just about the logo, that does seem pretty low on the priorities list since we can just keep the old one for now.
22:06 <clime> so is the plain to host libravar.org in the fedorainfracloud where I have setup libravatar.fedorainfracloud.org or do you have something else in mind?
22:07 <clime> cause i don't know anything about those logo issues
22:07 <tleguern> From my understanding ofalk asked the Fedara design team for a new logo to go with the hosted service. They replied saying it was not possible to use the Libravatar name as they were afraid of patent or trademark issues.
22:07 <clime> hmm, ok, i think we can just talk with them about it again
22:08 <clime> or keep the old one as you say
22:08 <clime> the hosting is open for "third-party" services
22:08 <sumpfralle1> clime: if you can take a look at the discussion and get more information - that would be great and probably clarifies everything.
22:09 <@fmarier_> Maybe that's something that clime and ofalk can follow up on? (Looping me in if required)
22:09 <clime> ye, i think that would be a good idea
22:09 <@fmarier_> I'm happy to help, but I think clime is in the best position to figure out what's going on.
22:09 <clime> ok
22:09 <clime> will do
22:09 <sumpfralle1> great!
22:10 <sumpfralle1> So we are finished? Or do you have other topics?
22:12 <tleguern> I think it's okay for now ?
22:12 <@fmarier_> Nothing from me.
22:12 <clime> same here
22:12 <sumpfralle1> Great - so have a good remaining Sunday!
22:12 <clime> you too!
22:12 <tleguern> You too :)
22:13 <tleguern> See you all next time.
22:13 <tleguern> I hope I will have a reliable Internet connection by then.
22:15 <@fmarier_> thanks everyone