lubuntu-qa team mailing list archive

[Nio Wiklund <nio.wiklund@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi Phill and Julien,

Here are my test results concerning minimum and recommended RAM to
install Lubuntu Trusty
_____________________________________________________________

Testing with the boot option 'mem' in the following computer

http://www.toshiba.se/laptops/satellite-pro/c850/satellite-pro-c850-19w/

('effective' is what is reported by 'free -m' as total memory)


Erase disk and install (with swap partition on the HDD)

Lubuntu Trusty desktop 32-bit beta2
mem=256M (effective 241M) OK
mem=224M (effective 210M) heavy swapping to zram and disk, but OK
mem=192M failure

Erase disk and install (without swap partition on the HDD)

Lubuntu Trusty desktop 32-bit beta2
mem=256M (effective 241M) OK
mem=224M (effective 210M) heavy swapping to zram, but OK
mem=192M failure

lubuntu Trusty alternate 32-bit beta2
mem=192M (effective 178M) OK
mem=176M (effective 162M) OK
mem=160M failure


Summary

Absolute minimun RAM for the standard installers

Lubuntu Trusty desktop 32-bit: 224 MB
Lubuntu Trusty alternate 32-bit: 176 MB


More memory is necessary for more advanced install alternatives, for
example dual boot using 'Something else' at the partitioning window.

Recommended minimum RAM for the standard installers

Lubuntu Trusty desktop 32-bit: 384 MB
Lubuntu Trusty alternate 32-bit: 256 MB


Alternatives

The One Button Installer can install systems with 128 MB RAM.

https://help.ubuntu.com/community/OBI

The 9w installer can install systems with 80 MB RAM, but Lubuntu Core
Trusty needs 128 MB RAM to run and at least 256 MB RAM to be really useful.

http://phillw.net/isos/linux-tools/9w/

Computers with less memory can be used in text mode (or maybe in
graphics mode with some other really small linux distro).

See posts #88, 89 and the following posts in this thread about 9w.

http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2209683&page=5&p=12957586#post12957586
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2209683&page=6&p=12957950#post12957950
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2209683&page=8&p=12962755#post12962755


Best regards
Nio

2014-03-14 22:35, Nio Wiklund skrev:
> Hi Phill,
> 
> Yes I can. I'll test with standard Lubuntu 32-bit.
> 
> I guess the priority list should be what is possible with the
> 
> 1. desktop installer
> 
> 2. alternate installer
> 
> and the non-conventional alternatives can be tested with standard
> Lubuntu and or Lubuntu Core
> 
> 3. OBI (only booted from mass storage devices, typically USB pendrive)
> 
> 4. 9w (booted from CD/DVD/USB drives)
> 
> -o-
> 
> I was not able to install Lubuntu Saucy with 128 MB RAM and any of the
> conventional installers. The alternate or mini iso (netboot) installer
> needed at least 160 MB. I could install with the OBI with 128 MB. I did
> not try the OBI with less RAM. The text in that page is brief, and I
> think it should state the limit for each installer. I expect that the
> limits will be the same or slightly higher with Trusty.
> 
> Best regards
> Nio
> 
> 2014-03-14 21:19, Phill Whiteside skrev:
>> Hi Nio,
>>
>> can you ensure that https://wiki.ubuntu.com/Lubuntu#System_Requirements
>> is up to date. 
>>
>> Regards,
>>
>> Phill.
>>
>>
>> On 10 March 2014 01:46, Nio Wiklund <nio.wiklund@xxxxxxxxx
>> <mailto:nio.wiklund@xxxxxxxxx>> wrote:
>>
>>     Hi again!
>>
>>     A couple of friends at the Ubuntu Forums have helped us find the low
>>     limit of hardware, when Lubuntu Saucy and Trusty can run (as installed
>>     with the 9w installer)
>>
>>     See this link (posts #76-79)
>>
>>     http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=2209683&page=4&p=12952191#post12952191
>>
>>     Doug S wrote {
>>
>>     Ventrical @ 166 Mhz and 80 Megabytes is not enough. Me at 200 Mhz and
>>     115 Megabytes right on the edge, and while installation was fine,
>>     operationally probably not enough.
>>     }
>>
>>     Best regards
>>     Nio
>>
>>     2014-03-08 13:38, Nio Wiklund skrev:
>>     > [my text is at the end except the link]
>>     >
>>     > http://phillw.net/isos/linux-tools/9w/
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > 2014-03-08 12:24, Ali Linx skrev:
>>     >>
>>     >> On 03/08/2014 01:30 AM, Nio Wiklund wrote:
>>     >>> 2014-03-07 01:53, Nio Wiklund skrev:
>>     >>>> Hi,
>>     >>>>
>>     >>>> We want to try a new kernel for Trusty Tahr, that is developed by
>>     >>>> PhillW. Many people help to build an Ubuntu based operating system
>>     >>>> around it, a system that should work on most computers (maybe
>>     except
>>     >>>> some of those brand new ones that cannot switch off UEFI).
>>     >>>>
>>     >>>> We have a wide variety of computers, but have not found any
>>     really old
>>     >>>> one without PAE capability. I'm not talking about Pentium M and
>>     Celeron
>>     >>>> M, I'm talking about CPUs before Pentium II:
>>     >>>>
>>     >>>> Pentium Pro, Pentium (i586), or Intel 486 or maybe the
>>     corresponding
>>     >>>> generation of AMD from 1993-1997.
>>     >>>>
>>     >>>> I have an old computer from 1998, and it has a Pentium II CPU
>>     at 400
>>     >>>> MHz, so it must be older. Check for a clock frequency at or
>>     below 200
>>     >>>> MHz.
>>     >>>>
>>     >>>> If you are a happy owner of such a jewel, please help us test
>>     that the
>>     >>>> non-pae kernel really works in a computer without PAE
>>     capability :-)
>>     >>>>
>>     >>>> Best regards
>>     >>>> Nio
>>     >>>>
>>     >>> Hi again,
>>     >>>
>>     >>> After some [private] replies offering tests on old enough
>>     hardware, I
>>     >>> can report the following results:
>>     >>>
>>     >>> You can try the installer (to find out if it boots and runs in
>>     text mode
>>     >>> with really low RAM). An older computer might need less RAM for
>>     drivers
>>     >>> than my IBM Thinkpad T42 with Pentium M CPU.
>>     >>>
>>     >>> *The Debian installer, live in an iso file*
>>     >>>
>>     >>> It starts in text mode and uses 18 MB RAM when idle  (and 22 MB in a
>>     >>> newer computer with AMD Athlon dual core 4400+), but I have problems
>>     >>> below 64 MB, set with the boot option (text is default)
>>     >>>
>>     >>> mem=48M
>>     >>>
>>     >>> in an old IBM Thinkpad T42 with Pentium M CPU.
>>     >>>
>>     >>> it cannot unpack initramfs
>>     >>>
>>     >>> *Ubuntu Trusty installed system with Phill's non-pae kernel*
>>     >>>
>>     >>> The Ubuntu Trusty kernel needs more RAM, now after some
>>     >>> testing I would say at least 64 MB, but I have problems below 80
>>     MB, set
>>     >>> with the boot options
>>     >>>
>>     >>> text mem=64M
>>     >>>
>>     >>> in the same old IBM Thinkpad T42 with Pentium M CPU.
>>     >>>
>>     >>> When idling
>>     >>>
>>     >>> free -m  # shows 38 MB RAM used
>>     >>> htop     # shows 39 MB RAM used
>>     >>>
>>     >>> but it seems more RAM is needed at some stage of the boot process.
>>     >>>
>>     >>> -o-
>>     >>>
>>     >>> The really old computers available so far have too low RAM,
>>     except one,
>>     >>> with a Pentium Pro at 200 Mhz. It has 128 Megabytes of memory. The
>>     >>> computer was purchased on 1996.08.31. But it has a PAE flag and
>>     should
>>     >>> be PAE capable.
>>     >>>
>>     >>> I'm starting to think, that most computers if not all, that are old
>>     >>> enough to lack PAE capability have too low RAM anyway for our
>>     new Ubuntu
>>     >>> flavour non-pae kernel.
>>     >>>
>>     >>> The outstanding exceptions are Celeron M and Pentium M, that
>>     lack the
>>     >>> PAE flag, but in most cases have PAE capability.
>>     >>
>>     >> Further to my previous reply:
>>     >>
>>     https://lists.ubuntu.com/archives/lubuntu-users/2014-March/006876.html
>>     >>
>>     >> I have forgotten to mention that on this thread:
>>     >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1590614
>>     >>
>>     >> I manged to install - trying again to save you the trouble to go
>>     through
>>     >> all the posts of that long thread - Linux on such super old
>>     machine (P2
>>     >> with 64MB RAM and 4GB HDD) by:
>>     >>
>>     >> 1- Taking the HDD out - because the machine itself has nothing to be
>>     >> used to install Linux.
>>     >> 2- Plugged the HDD to another machine.
>>     >> 3- Linux installed - I wasted one month for this experiment
>>     because more
>>     >> than 50 different systems didn't work - check the thread.
>>     >> 4- Disconnected the HDD and put it back in.
>>     >>
>>     >> One month, ladies and gentlemen. Yes, I learned a lot and proved
>>     a lot
>>     >> but the real result wasn't helpful for a daily use. Why? because
>>     these
>>     >> machines can no longer serve while we are in 2014.
>>     >>
>>     >> I was shocked when I managed to connect to the Wireless Network and
>>     >> update the system. But that was the further I managed to go IIRC.
>>     >>
>>     >> See the thread if you wish:
>>     >> http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1590614
>>     >>
>>     >> If anyone still think I'm wrong, see the thread :)
>>     >>
>>     >> And first thing you do, check the date of that thread: October
>>     8th, 2010
>>     >>
>>     >>> Best regards
>>     >>> Nio
>>     >>>
>>     >> Thank you!
>>     >>
>>     >
>>     > Hi everybody :-)
>>     >
>>     > I see your points, I just want to explore things and find out myself.
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > *. 9w - an installer for old computers
>>     >
>>     > So I uploaded a directory with an experimental installer and two
>>     sample
>>     > systems to install. The installer is based on a Debian system with an
>>     > i486 kernel, and it can install any kind of [free] operating system.
>>     > There are two sample systems which expand to 4 GB
>>     >
>>     > Lubuntu Trusty non-pae built february 23  'Ltrusty-npae-feb23.iso'
>>     > Lubuntu Saucy PAE-for-Pentium-M  'LubuSaucy-pae2pm-4GB.iso'
>>     >
>>     > 9w comes as a hybrid ISO file, that works from CD/DVD and cloned from
>>     > USB. So it is simple to make install media for most old computers.
>>     >
>>     > See this link
>>     >
>>     > http://phillw.net/isos/linux-tools/9w/
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > 1. What computer will run at all, will be able to do some 'real work',
>>     > etc? It might be worth the effort just for the sake of knowledge.
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > 2. What computers are the target for a non-pae Ubuntu kernel?
>>     >
>>     > With the new fix in Trusty, [almost all] Pentium M and Celeron M will
>>     > work with standard 32-bit kernel and the very simple tweak to add the
>>     > boot option 'forcepae'.
>>     >
>>     > If all pre-Pentium II computers are out of the question, how many
>>     > computers remain? For example: Are there motherboards, that are
>>     non-pae,
>>     > and are not helped by fake-PAE? Other problems?
>>     >
>>     > I'm thinking of Jörn's reply:
>>     >
>>     > -------- Ursprungligt meddelande --------
>>     > Ämne: Re: have you got a really old computer
>>     > Datum: Fri, 7 Mar 2014 22:48:24 +0100
>>     > Från: Joern <joern.schoenyan@xxxxxx <mailto:joern.schoenyan@xxxxxx>>
>>     > Till: Nio Wiklund <nio.wiklund@xxxxxxxxx
>>     <mailto:nio.wiklund@xxxxxxxxx>>
>>     >
>>     > There also some CPUs that aren't PAE capable but were likely shipped
>>     > with enough RAM, like some VIA ones, 1 or 2 versions of Pentium M with
>>     > 1.2 GHz and the Transmeta Crusoe.
>>     >
>>     > Jörn
>>     > --------
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > 3. What computers are the target for ToriOS?
>>     >
>>     > - Is Pentium 4 and 512 MB RAM the low limit?
>>     >
>>     >
>>     > Best regards
>>     > Nio
>>     >
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> https://wiki.ubuntu.com/phillw
>