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Re: Moving from Launchpad lists to something else... ?


Hello Kristian!

2015-10-21 8:48 GMT+03:00 Kristian Nielsen <knielsen@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>:
> The most important is that people can subscribe to the list without having
> to create an account. This is the problem with Launchpad.

In this sense plain Mailman seems to be the best. It also creates an
account but the password is automatically created, so it feels like
there is no account requirement. On http://www.discourse.org/
federated login can be used, e.g. Github. On Google groups the admin
can add email addresses directly and no account is required, but I
didn't find a way for users to self-subscribe without using a Google
account. I'll continue to evaluate these options.

> However, the problem with the mailing list is not where it is hosted. It is
> that the majority of development happens off-list!
> The developer mailing list is the core of a healthy open-source project that
> treats developers equally. It is where everyone, newbie or core developer,
> can first learn how the project runs, and later follow what is going on.

>From what I've seen you are an excellent engineer and I remember that
you've raised some very important issues on the list, like for example
last winter regarding that way too often buildbot tests fail and that
developers don't have enough discipline to push only all green stuff.

I this case I however think you are over-reacting. The fact that
company staff discuss development internally is not a problem. I can
see plenty of discussions in the public on this mailing list and on
irc #mariadb. I am sure all important things are discussed on bigger
forums. I am sure Facebook and Google staff who work on MariaDB/MySQL
also have a lot of internal discussions for example regarding their
own priorities and what to invest their time on. That kind of stuff is
supposed to stay internal and it is not relevant for others.

> Just look at the below random example from a closed mailing list open only
> to employees. Stuff like this happens all the time, on closed mailing lists,
> closed IRC channels, and latest I think a company-internal chat tool called
> "Slack".

I don't work for the corporation and I don't have access to the Slack
you refer to, or other company confidential stuff, but I am sure that
internal and non-public communication channels exist for a reason.
People should be allowed to enjoy the safety those havens provide.
Please don't publish internal communications. If you notice that
something is discussed internally that might be of interest to a wider
audience, then ask those people to write about it in public (as you
just did), and keep asking them again on case-by-case basis if a
categorical request to discuss everything on a public mailing list
does not work for them.

> So Colin, and others: Why bother working to move the mailing list elsewhere?

It does matter for a lot of people. Please don't undermine other
people's efforts by claiming that they are in vain. The community is
constantly growing and what discussion tools are used is essential and
worthwhile to do well. Your point of view of the status quo is not a
generic community view, so you need to factor in the
employee/corporation things that apply to you but that other
contributors don't experience. What that in practice means is
something you need to discuss with your co-workers and not with
contributors in general on the mailing list.

- Otto