Re: [Ayatana] Message Indicator: Listing apps in menu even if they are not on

[Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 17:11:02 +0530 mac_v <drkvi-a@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>On Sat, 2009-09-05 at 06:56 -0400, Scott Kitterman wrote: 
>> On Sat, 05 Sep 2009 12:58:37 +0530 mac_v <drkvi-a@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>> >Anyone subscribed to the wiki page would realize that the messaging menu
>> >specs are changed almost every other day[in the past couple of weeks].
>> >They seem to be testing it and trying to find a proper solution! I think
>> >if we are a *little patient* the plans would become clear,eventually.
>> >
>> 
>> If we are just supposed to sit back and wait and accept what we are 
given, 
>> then there is no need for a public list.  Please don't attempt to shout 
>> down people who have questions.  
>> 
>> Scott K
>> 
>
>err... i didnt mean to shout anyone down...    :( 
>
>But rather wanted to say, the product is still in development cycle.
>When a product is in *development cycle* it is reasonable to find
>several changes in the apps almost every day.
>
>We cant keep constantly banding the doors for an answer which might
>change at anytime during testing!
>
>Rather we need to offer solutions about what seems wrong.
>
>Its just we are not used to such changes in specs , since only recently
>has Ubuntu been doing upstream development.

To be clear, Ayatana is not part of Ubuntu.  I think it's new for Canonical 
to have a team dedicated to upstream development and user experience 
improvements.

I think questions from other upstream usability experts deserve particular 
attention.  If there are conceptual or design shortcomings, the sooner they 
are exposed, the better.

>take for example: gnome3 had changes in several aspects and even now we
>dont know what it is going to end up as...

And if this were the list for that, questions about its evolution would be 
entirely appropriate.

>Well,these were just my impressions from all the work going on, i maybe
>wrong. But none is to shout anyone down :)

OK.  It certainly gave that impression :(.

>On Sat, 2009-09-05 at 12:40 +0200, Steve Dodier wrote:
>> 
>> Excuse, but that seems like a perfect exemple of design flaw Celeste
>> is warning against. Her point of view is entirely valid when she says
>> that you need to make sure the design fits with the goals now that you
>> (even slightly) changed the goal.
>> 
>I agree . The questions raised are valid,*to devs* who want to keep up. 

Celeste is, as far as I know, the only independent usability expert 
regularly participating here.  Given the design centered focus of Ayatana, 
I think questions from people like Celeste would rate even higher than ones 
for implementers.

>But in no way at all do the arguments bare any weight on having the
>feature implemented or not. Regarding the design of the product this is
>not a valid argument. I was commenting only on that. ;)

Just because you disagree, doesn't give you the right to discount other opinions or the 
appropriateness of people expressing this.  Despite our chat on IRC, this is still what it 
sounds to me like you are doing.

The chances of Ayatana products making into Kubuntu are significantly 
affected by the reception they get from KDE upstream.  I'd appreciate it if 
this dialogue were pursued to a reasonable conclusion.

Scott K