Re: [Ayatana] Tabs

[Joern Konopka <cldx3000@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hi �everybody,

first off, let me just clarify what Dylan said for Frederik:

"Are you saying that e.g. Firefox should have a seperate, different sidebar for each tab that is open? Please apply your theory to how Firefox should rather handle tabs in your vision.."

I don't mean to steal Dylan's explanation and please correct me if i explained anything wrong since i of course want to understand better myself;)

All he meant was that if an Application utilizes a GTKNotebook Widget for Tabs that could as well be interpreted as top-level Windows, those Applications should utilize a new type of Widget to expose the toplevel treatment of the Tabs to the system to distinguish it from Applications that use the GTKNotebook Widget for content that cannot stand on its own two feet, for example the Icons Tab in the Appearance Settings. The look and feel of the Tabs should remain the same, the true advantages are laid out on the Backend and will make it easier to adopt special treatments for Tabs where those are demanded.

While we're at the Subject, may i propose the Name GTKTablevel for that Widget ? xD

Now to my actual reason i'm writing here, you may hate it, you may love it, maybe somebody already posted something alike, however i have read a lot into Tabs lately, be it the way Gnome-Shell handles AltTab with grouped windows or the Mozilla Labs Project from `09 concerning Tabs in the Browser�http://design-challenge.mozillalabs.com/summer09/index_old.html.

It made me think about how Tabs only got invented so people won`t overfill their Taskbar and didn't have to run 10 instances of a Browser at once. Still, a Website remains a Toplevel Document and it should be emphasized as such. Now ever since Dylan mentioned a GTKWidget that separates such Tabs from Content-specific Tabs it just struck me, why can't i select a Tab from AltTab if its in no way related to any other Document i have open. And since i really didn't have anything better to do and im really not the guy with words i made a Mockup for your enjoyment. Any feedback is much appreciated.�

Oh, before i forget, Windicators are taken into consideration as well.

Thanks for being patient and see the Attachment :)

Best Regards, Joern

2010/5/17 Frederik Nnaji <frederik.nnaji@xxxxxxxxx>

Hi Dylan

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 17:21, Dylan McCall <dylanmccall@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:

On Mon, May 17, 2010 at 7:05 AM, Tyler Brainerd <tylerbrainerd@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> Haha. I guess what I'm getting at is theres plenty of apps (like Empathy)
> that have tabs available, but they work on different rules. Not to mention
> that some apps are on top, others on bottom, some are full featured tabs,
> some are content only and not tool bars and so have
> inconsistent�appearance....

There is also some variety in what tabs feel like; what they mean, and
how they relate to windows. Lots of apps (Empathy, Firefox, gedit)
have tabs representing toplevel windows, to the extent they can be
dragged / dropped to expand into new toplevel windows.

Reinteract is a neat alternative case. The application lets you do
math with Python and you get results in-line (plotting graphs, etc).
It has Notebooks, which contain Worksheets. Each notebook is
represented by a new window, and all the worksheets in a notebook
appear as separate tabs in its window. It makes no mention of tabs in
the surrounding chrome (there isn't a Tabs menu), and it is impossible
to drag a tab to create a new window. This isn't a problem of any sort
because they are a distinctly defined part of the user interface; they
represent something in a concrete way and they don't conflict with top
level windows. The tabs are just there.

I think I have seen a few other apps like this, but Reinteract is the
one I remember. I think it is a nice example of tabs done right,
because it doesn't feel like they're just throwing tabs in for the
sake of it.

Not that �tabs are like windows, but inside of them� is inherently
tabs done wrong, but it _is_ a kludgey design as it is, and
inconsistent with how tabs are used elsewhere. Right now both designs,
even though they are completely different, go through the GTK Notebook
widget. Maybe that could be reconsidered. A new widget that
semantically and visually represents a separate document inside a
toplevel window may be worth exploring.

I think becoming consistent with tabs will be difficult when we have
some applications (like Firefox) that treat tabs as features by
themselves that the user needs to think about directly; and other
applications (Reinteract, most configuration dialogs :/) where a tab -
as in, that exact same GTK widget - represents a section, or some
other unique and tactile thing where the important part is what it
represents, not the tab itself.

Being much of a layman, i can still follow most of what you formulate in here.
This time i don't understand your point, for all the words you use to make it..

Dedicated GTK widget vs misused "Notes" widget sounds plausible to me, thanks.

What's with tabs now? I see the discussion on how tabs can't be consistently cycled with [CTRL]+[TAB] in all apps.. But what do you mean exactly with your Reinteract example?
Are you saying that e.g. Firefox should have a seperate, different sidebar for each tab that is open? Please apply your theory to how Firefox should rather handle tabs in your vision..

_______________________________________________
Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
Post to � � : ayatana@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~ayatana
More help � : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp

Attachment: AltTabMaverick.png
Description: PNG image