Re: [Ayatana] CSD and the pressure to innovate

[Sense Hofstede <qense@xxxxxxxxxx>]

On 4 July 2010 10:50, Mark Shuttleworth <mark@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> On 29/06/10 07:19, Conscious User wrote:
>>> I think that makes two of two implementations that nicely illustrate the
>>> concern that CSD is harmful for workspace consistency.
>>>
>> I have to agree on this one. Visual inconsistency is one of the oldest
>> complaints against Songbird.
>>
>
> I think there's a difference between cases where the application takes
> all matter into its own hands, and cases where the application
> implements CSD inside a desktop-wide framework.
>
> As you can see, ignoring CSD isn't stopping popular apps from embracing
> elements of it - inconsistently. My view is that making CSD systemic
> isn't going to worsen the situation, and likely makes it substantially
> better.
>
> Songbird and Chrome are innovating because the desktop environments are
> not. In part, the desktop environments are not innovating because (a)
> Windows and MacOS are too entrenched, and (b) Linux folks can't agree on
> a direction, and views are vociferous across the spectrum.
>
> The direction we have taken with Unity and the netbook interface will, I
> hope, address some of the issues that have driven the unilateral
> movement by Songbird, Chrome and others. In other words, by making the
> window system / desktop environment layout more efficient in the way
> those app developers care about, we reduce the pressure for them to do
> things that are radically different, and hence inconsistent.
>
> What do they care about?
>
> Efficiency. Both Chrome and Songbird have tried to eliminate wasted
> vertical space, in different ways. Songbird by putting the menu in the
> window title bar, Chrome, by moving the menu to a much less vertically
> intrusive form factor. Chrome has gone further, putting tabs into the
> titlebar area too.
>
> In 10.10, we'll take a big step forward in the netbook edition, by
> moving the menu into the top panel and combining it with the titlebar
> for maximised windows. The next challenge will be for us to be smarter
> about tabs, so I think we'll do a bunch of exploration work for 11.04 in
> that regard. If we can *nail* those things, we'll have the most
> efficient use of vertical space, and can reasonably expect Chrome and
> Songbird to embrace it.
>
> Mark
>
>

The mock-ups for Firefox 4 seem also to be using CSD. That's the only
way I can think of to get that menu up there in the title bar.

<https://wiki.mozilla.org/Firefox/4.0_Linux_Theme_Mockups>

Cheers,
-- 
Sense Hofstede
[ˈsɛn.sə ˈɦɔf.steː.də]