Den 28. aug. 2011 05:12, skrev James Jenner:
On 27 August 2011 13:57, Jo-Erlend Schinstad <joerlend.schinstad@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: Right, and that was what I reacted to. You don't need to develop any muscle memory. If you hit anywhere on the panel (except the indicators, presently) then the menus and the window buttons are shown. Hitting the top of the screen doesn't qualify as something you need muscle memory for since it doesn't matter how far you move the mouse, as long as you move it forward. My assumption is that if people are easily confused, then reducing the number of buttons and menus would reduce the chance of confusion. It also makes it much more comfortable to work with maximized windows, which is -- as you also point out -- becoming common, specially for less experienced users. Why? Most people I know, haven't got any experience with type writers. It's not obvious to me that a ninety degree angle with a left arrow means you want a new line. It is more obvious that an up arrow means shift, since you're shifting from small to large characters, but it still isn't obvious. Or what about tab? Two arrows pointing to the left and right at a vertical bar? The point, obviously, is that you do need to learn some basic skills in order to interact with the computer and the system. Learning that you can expose extra functionality by moving the pointer to the top of the screen isn't very advanced. I would say that learning to use the mouse buttons are very much more difficult. When do you double click? Why do you never double click on the right button? When do you click the middle button? That _is_ complicated and that's something that's improved rather radically with the indicators. People really appreciate that.
I think that is an excellent reason not to display extra buttons and menus at all times. How often do these people use the menus in the browser? If it isn't needed, don't show it. Microsofts ribbon interface does the exact opposite and I think it's a very bad idea in very many cases. In some cases it might be useful, but in most cases, I think it makes more sense to hide buttons that aren't needed. «...is not comparing apples to apples...» A mobile phone is not the same as a desktop. You generally don't have large applications like LibreOffice or Blender running on it, with hundreds of menu options, etc. I'm not really that impressed by their interface, and I don't think it's just because of it that they're successful. They're masters of the media. For instance, here in Norway, there were three pads on the market before the Ipad were made available. They were being called Ipad competitors a year before Ipad entered the market. That helps. It's not to say that Apples software isn't good. It is. But it is also more than a little overrated. Well. If you look at the subject of this thread, then it should become apparent that I wasn't expecting this. Even so, it was completely apparent to me what had changed. It actually took a little while before I noticed that the buttons were not being displayed when I didn't use them. What I did notice, was that it had become much easier to see the title of the page/window I was working in, and that is a real improvement. You need to touch the top panel. Right now the menus and window controls aren't displayed if you go directly to the indicators without touching any other part of the panel. I think that needs to be changed before release. The indicators are begging to be explored and when the buttons and menus are displayed, it is very noticeable. Specially because of the red button on a panel where everything else is monochrome. I'm really impressed by that. The message indicator is also very visible when there is an email, even though it just changes colors. The effect is similar, but stronger because of the red button. And of course, the more menus an application has, the easier it is to notice.
It actually did have a meaning. My point is that when I grew up, things were very different and now most people doesn't even know that they ever were that way. Many people have been arguing that we shouldn't hide the window controls and menus because people are used to the way things are from Windows. But that is a very weak argument for many reason. All new users of Ubuntu should be made very aware that Ubuntu is a different system. They'll discover that many things are similar, but they shouldn't expect them to be, because that will only cause confusion. And I wasn't actually born a geek. I did have to learn using MSDOS, GEM, later Windows and then GNU/Linux of different shapes and sizes. I learned that because I was interested in using computers. That was a somewhat strange hobby back then, but now it is something almost everyone does. I think the fear of change is exaggerated, and in this case, it is unfounded. I don't know exactly how I noticed that the buttons had been hided, but I suspect it happened when they were displayed because I needed them. To me, that is a sign of really good design. Well I have tested this on some ... let's call them rather inexperienced users. I was expecting some strong reactions, in either direction, but I didn't get it. "ok". Some didn't even react at all. "The panel shows either the title or the menus, since you never need both at once". If you think about it, it's quite sensible and not at all difficult to comprehend. Well. If it doesn't hurt the user experience, then as much as possible should be discoverable. But since most people are going to spend thousands of hours using their computers, I think it is better to show these things once and then optimize personal efficiency and comfort. We once learned how to shave, right? It wasn't strictly necessary. You would've figured it out by trial and error, but it didn't take long to show it once and it probably saved you from a few cuts and itches. And since then, I'm sure you've shaved a couple of times without feeling any need of a reminder how to do it. And shaving is far less common than interacting with a window. I expect to receive a few points for that analogy :) Jo-Erlend Schinstad |