mythbuntu-bugs team mailing list archive

[Soren Andersen <somian08@xxxxxxxxx>]

Public bug reported:

Hi, workers. First of all, I know you are mostly or entirely volunteers.

Second, I know there are protocols and traditions for bug reports.

This report concerns ubiquity 2.10.26 running on the
mythbuntu-12.04.2-desktop-i386 Live (ISO) release.

Third, I am generally aware that there is widespread lack of love for
Ubiquity. One only has to use the Web for many hours each week seeking
technical information, to see that (one can be lookinjg for completely
unrelated information; search engines will ensure, through their
imperfection, that you see all sorts of random stuff). If the reader
thinks "no, that's absurd, Ubiquity is great, nobody is unhappy with
it!" then I think that reader ought to step outside the groupthink of an
insular project for a little while. Grab a bit of fresh air. Also notice
out there in the distance, the large herd of Linux users fleeing from
*buntu to other types of distro - and notice how often *Ubiquity* is
cited as a reason.

Now, here's the bug. LatestISO for MythBuntu Live (x86 arch) downlowded
and burned. Booted it on a Compaq Evo Pentium 4 machine with 256MB of
RAM and a minimal hdd (a 4GB CF-card, actually), but a larger USB
-connected hdd attached (>500GB).

I had pre-partitioned the larger hdd. The partition available to install
MythBuntu has over 47GB of free space.

It took hours to get the 802.11 "wifi" networking up (WPA-psk type
setup). When finally stable connection was achieved, I ran the "Install
MythBuntu" (Ubiquity) from the desktop shortcut.

The installer interface (as any reader who could address this bug will
know already) has multiple modes. I won't try to detail them too
precisely. If a reader argues based on lack of painstaking detail in
describing, that I am making things up, that's their problem.

The mode to select location to *install MythBuntu to manually* was
selected. The partitioner started. The partition was selected, the
"edit" button was pressed, the parameters "mount as /" was chosen. The
only dubious choice I made was not to format the partition (no need,
already formatted). By "format" we mean "create a filesystem on it". If
a reader or a developer of Linux software thinks that "to format" means
something else, then I suggest they need not just fresh air, but an
oxygen tent.

The apparent requirements of me as the operator having been provided, I
went ahead and clicked "Continue". Ubiquity did not offer me any sort of
"installation parameters summary, then confirm" screen. Another term for
such an interface would be "sanity check."

Instead, the Ubiquity installer merely indicated that it was running
...and went on "running" for hours. It showed the nice series of slides
with the reassuring messages, finally saying "The Installation will be
done shortly" or some such. And hours. And hours. Overnight, in fact.

Here's what a suspicious, "I don't take for granted that you people are
not to the last one, on crack" geek type person does. They have a
terminal window open while Ubiquity is running. In one tab, they have
"top" running. They can thus peer into the processes that are running at
any given time. They have another tab open running `tail -f
/var/log/syslog' and so forth. They check the logs under
/var/log/mythbuntu_installer (pathnbame is something like that) too.
They run `cat /proc/mount' at various points. They do not take for
granted that this "user-friendly" installer is doing anything benign at
all. And I am that kind of paranoid user, yeah. And what I discovered is
this.

The Ubiquity installer sat for hours doing apparently absolutely nothing
in the background.

No mounting of the selected partition ever took place. When I finally
killed the installer, I confirmed that no files had been written to said
partition.

Also, the network monitoring I informally did (as a paranoid geek as
described previously ...) indicated very minimal levels of network
activity. As if Ubiquity was not downloading updated packages or
anything, either.

I set a timer for 30 minutes to compose the lucid prose that comprises
this bug report. Not having seen anything like it in the very brief
survey of recently submitted "MythBuntu bugs" here on Launchpad makes me
very nervous. It make me wonder if people  have actually given up and
wandered away to alternative "Foo" ...lack of reports does not mean
"everything is okay." Software has bugs. ALL software has bugs. Absence
of bug reports related to a crucial piece of packages software such as
an installer, that behaves as flagrantly badly as I've seen, is a very
ominous sign. There's a continuum here. Valid, breathing, progressing
projects have communities that are submitting bug reports. In very
stable and mature projects of some sorts, there may be viability and
reliability and yet few current bugs (that project has achieved
excellence). Then there is a situation where the "all of them, to the
last one, is on crack" characterization applies so strongly that there
are few bug reports. But hey, someone here will know the download stats
and other elements of evidence that MythBuntu isn't being fled by users.
What I sense I may be seeing here is just personal perspective, and it
is not my intention to unjustly characterize MythBuntu as a failure.

Nevertheless, this kind of first-time user experience is pretty nasty.
It smacks of the esufferings of those who live with a certain
proprietary OS headquartered in the Pacific Northwest, where they like
to conceal gross errors in software design behind the banner of "end-
user friendly".

Oh, Fourth: the only reason I would have tried a *buntu flavored distro
is to get MythTV set up. That I have not, after spending much more than
one standard workday on it, is a disappointment.

There are attachments.

Thanks for your sincere attention.

** Affects: mythbuntu
     Importance: Undecided
         Status: New


** Tags: installer

** Attachment added: "Several logs and hwinfo description (all are txt files)"
   https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1221129/+attachment/3803632/+files/bugreport_disks_and_hw.tar.gz

-- 
You received this bug notification because you are a member of Mythbuntu
Bug Team, which is subscribed to Mythbuntu.
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/1221129

Title:
  Ubiquity (installer) completely fails to touch disks

Status in Mythbuntu, Ubuntu derivative focused upon MythTV:
  New

Bug description:
  Hi, workers. First of all, I know you are mostly or entirely
  volunteers.

  Second, I know there are protocols and traditions for bug reports.

  This report concerns ubiquity 2.10.26 running on the
  mythbuntu-12.04.2-desktop-i386 Live (ISO) release.

  Third, I am generally aware that there is widespread lack of love for
  Ubiquity. One only has to use the Web for many hours each week seeking
  technical information, to see that (one can be lookinjg for completely
  unrelated information; search engines will ensure, through their
  imperfection, that you see all sorts of random stuff). If the reader
  thinks "no, that's absurd, Ubiquity is great, nobody is unhappy with
  it!" then I think that reader ought to step outside the groupthink of
  an insular project for a little while. Grab a bit of fresh air. Also
  notice out there in the distance, the large herd of Linux users
  fleeing from *buntu to other types of distro - and notice how often
  *Ubiquity* is cited as a reason.

  Now, here's the bug. LatestISO for MythBuntu Live (x86 arch)
  downlowded and burned. Booted it on a Compaq Evo Pentium 4 machine
  with 256MB of RAM and a minimal hdd (a 4GB CF-card, actually), but a
  larger USB -connected hdd attached (>500GB).

  I had pre-partitioned the larger hdd. The partition available to
  install MythBuntu has over 47GB of free space.

  It took hours to get the 802.11 "wifi" networking up (WPA-psk type
  setup). When finally stable connection was achieved, I ran the
  "Install MythBuntu" (Ubiquity) from the desktop shortcut.

  The installer interface (as any reader who could address this bug will
  know already) has multiple modes. I won't try to detail them too
  precisely. If a reader argues based on lack of painstaking detail in
  describing, that I am making things up, that's their problem.

  The mode to select location to *install MythBuntu to manually* was
  selected. The partitioner started. The partition was selected, the
  "edit" button was pressed, the parameters "mount as /" was chosen. The
  only dubious choice I made was not to format the partition (no need,
  already formatted). By "format" we mean "create a filesystem on it".
  If a reader or a developer of Linux software thinks that "to format"
  means something else, then I suggest they need not just fresh air, but
  an oxygen tent.

  The apparent requirements of me as the operator having been provided,
  I went ahead and clicked "Continue". Ubiquity did not offer me any
  sort of "installation parameters summary, then confirm" screen.
  Another term for such an interface would be "sanity check."

  Instead, the Ubiquity installer merely indicated that it was running
  ...and went on "running" for hours. It showed the nice series of
  slides with the reassuring messages, finally saying "The Installation
  will be done shortly" or some such. And hours. And hours. Overnight,
  in fact.

  Here's what a suspicious, "I don't take for granted that you people
  are not to the last one, on crack" geek type person does. They have a
  terminal window open while Ubiquity is running. In one tab, they have
  "top" running. They can thus peer into the processes that are running
  at any given time. They have another tab open running `tail -f
  /var/log/syslog' and so forth. They check the logs under
  /var/log/mythbuntu_installer (pathnbame is something like that) too.
  They run `cat /proc/mount' at various points. They do not take for
  granted that this "user-friendly" installer is doing anything benign
  at all. And I am that kind of paranoid user, yeah. And what I
  discovered is this.

  The Ubiquity installer sat for hours doing apparently absolutely
  nothing in the background.

  No mounting of the selected partition ever took place. When I finally
  killed the installer, I confirmed that no files had been written to
  said partition.

  Also, the network monitoring I informally did (as a paranoid geek as
  described previously ...) indicated very minimal levels of network
  activity. As if Ubiquity was not downloading updated packages or
  anything, either.

  I set a timer for 30 minutes to compose the lucid prose that comprises
  this bug report. Not having seen anything like it in the very brief
  survey of recently submitted "MythBuntu bugs" here on Launchpad makes
  me very nervous. It make me wonder if people  have actually given up
  and wandered away to alternative "Foo" ...lack of reports does not
  mean "everything is okay." Software has bugs. ALL software has bugs.
  Absence of bug reports related to a crucial piece of packages software
  such as an installer, that behaves as flagrantly badly as I've seen,
  is a very ominous sign. There's a continuum here. Valid, breathing,
  progressing projects have communities that are submitting bug reports.
  In very stable and mature projects of some sorts, there may be
  viability and reliability and yet few current bugs (that project has
  achieved excellence). Then there is a situation where the "all of
  them, to the last one, is on crack" characterization applies so
  strongly that there are few bug reports. But hey, someone here will
  know the download stats and other elements of evidence that MythBuntu
  isn't being fled by users. What I sense I may be seeing here is just
  personal perspective, and it is not my intention to unjustly
  characterize MythBuntu as a failure.

  Nevertheless, this kind of first-time user experience is pretty nasty.
  It smacks of the esufferings of those who live with a certain
  proprietary OS headquartered in the Pacific Northwest, where they like
  to conceal gross errors in software design behind the banner of "end-
  user friendly".

  Oh, Fourth: the only reason I would have tried a *buntu flavored
  distro is to get MythTV set up. That I have not, after spending much
  more than one standard workday on it, is a disappointment.

  There are attachments.

  Thanks for your sincere attention.

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