openerp-brazil-team team mailing list archive

[Raphael Valyi <rvalyi@xxxxxxxxx>]

Ola,

eu acho que podem interessar voces as negociaçoes que nos fazemos com os
preços com a OpenERP SA, aqui sobre os treinamentos:


---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Raphaël Valyi <rvalyi@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2011/5/5
Subject: Fwd: OpenERP: OpenERP offer, announcements and news
To: rvalyi@xxxxxxxxx




---------- Forwarded message ----------
From: Raphaël Valyi <rvalyi@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
Date: 2011/5/5
Subject: Re: OpenERP: OpenERP offer, announcements and news
To: Nicoleta Gherlea <ngh@xxxxxxxxxxx>
Cc: "partners@xxxxxxxxxxx" <partners@xxxxxxxxxxx>



> 2)* Getting the CTP straight out!
>
> *If you are an official CTP or think of becoming one, this information
> will clear out the price for it.
> *Open**ERP *highly recommends to set 2.500 EUR/person/5 day training.
> Moreover, we have set a
> bottom price of 2.000 EUR/person/5 day training.
>

Hello Nicoleta,

I don't know if those prices apply to developing countries...

Let me share our experience: we just hold the first Brazilian CTP trainings
here (we are actually running the tech one right now).
We sold at 1500 USD, taking on our own margins (eg we pay the same to
OpenERP SA than say a US partner (!)) and even with large promotion channels
(like 200 BR contacts and 200 BR people on the Launchpad mailing list), we
"only" had:
- 8 people for the user training in Sao Paulo
- 3 people for the tech training in Rio de Janeiro

So given the investments we had to make (like 6 expert man months on the BR
localization, without it OpenERP i not usable here), yes we do have a
return, but it's has just been like not more than a regular ERP project work
for that first shoot (hopefully next shoots are going to be a bit better).

But ideally we would have had 2x 13 people, even with a lower price, even
you OpenERP SA would have earn more... I'm not asking to lower the price
even more, but I tell you, increasing the price would definitely make people
run away.

I want to insist that here, 1500 USD is already perceived as very expensive,
specially considering that OpenERP SA does nearly nothing to support our
localization yet (14 extra modules...) which leaves usage of OpenERP pretty
complex here (because on on_change implementation you have to manually tweak
module dependencies after module installation and all sort of tricks...),
meaning the investment will extend a lot more beyond that training to
implement or get OpenERP implemented.
People have to pay a travel here cause Brazil is big, pay accommodation,
stay 5 days out of their companies...

1500 USD is already like 20% more expensive than a Pentaho equivalent 40
hours training by a certified partner in Sao Paulo for instance (
http://www.wba.com.br/index.php/eventos/seminrio-securitizao-de-ativos-empresariais/
).
I know that BI is not as complex as an ERP, but Pentaho at least works out
of the box here so I mean, the investment is more easily returned.


I just want to come to the point: I think it's extremely important to define
zone prices for OpenERP just like other products tend to do. Not all
countries have the same standard of living, it's important to develop a
compatible offer rather than encourage forks or non official offers. Do not
forget the Compiere/Adempiere story that all began in developing countries
mostly because of incompatible pricing policies from the Compiere
Californian company.


What we can do is stick to 1500 USD and abandon any help from OpenERP SA as
you mention. I think for the commercial help it's okay to skip it. However,
I think it would better if could benefit from the Eventbrite visibility even
bellow 2000 USD here.
We do not sell cheaper because we are bad guys, we are actually are the
first who invested in OpenERP in Brazil and supported you, now we
should accommodate to the economics reality, remembering that here SAP, M$,
Sage, Netsuite and other tradition big ERP players only have 3% of the SMB
market share because of those realities, so I mean being cheaper than them
doesn't actually help here...

Also I don't think there could be inter-continental price competitions. US
people are not going to travel here to receive a Portuguese training with
Brazilian fiscality. And inside a geographical zone, people are facing the
same economical realities.

Anyway, I'm saying that because I think developing countries are one of your
largest potential thanks to the volume and I hope we are not left on the
side of the road of your pricing policies.

We also see that 1500 USD (or your 2000 USD) is actually:

   - very expensive for an SMB
   - almost cheap for a specialized ERP/IT integrator

Of course one could only target ERP/IT integrators. But, I don't recommend
doing that as IMHO this would make OpenERP a bubble product much like
Openbravo has been. We need true implementations we cannot only leave on the
back of wannabee professionals with no real success stories behind. Also,
very few of those professional will actually be able to integrate OpenERP
the way it is currently (hopefully this situation is improving over the
years), so we have to pay attention not living on false expectations. Let's
remind us that we should have at least 10 success stories per integrator to
have a sustainable steady state.


Thoughts?


Best Regards.


-- 
Raphaël Valyi
Founder and consultant
+55 21 3010 9965
www.akretion.com