openerp-brazil-team team mailing list archive

[Raphael Valyi <rvalyi@xxxxxxxxx>]

Pelo jeito ate na Espanha os caras estao com a mesma linha que a nossa:

2011/5/6 Raphaël Valyi <rvalyi@xxxxxxxxxxxx>

>
>
> ---------- Forwarded message ----------
> From: Ana Juaristi <ajuaristio@xxxxxxxxx>
> Date: 2011/5/6
> Subject: Re: OpenERP: OpenERP offer, announcements and news
> To: Raphaël Valyi <rvalyi@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Cc: Nicoleta Gherlea <ngh@xxxxxxxxxxx>, "partners@xxxxxxxxxxx" <
> partners@xxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>
> Raphaël: I suscribe COMPLETELY your point of view. Here in Spain we have
> got similar situation about prices.
>
> We became CTP a few weeks ago and we disussed this point in Belgium
> directly with managers there. We adviced that we do not think that we will
> be able to sale courses for 2500€ even we will do our best to follow the
> OpenERP recomendation about it. I think, not only me but also the rest of
> Spanish partners will agree with you on this point.
>
> Thank you very much:
>
> Ana
>
> 2011/5/5 Raphaël Valyi <rvalyi@xxxxxxxxxxxx>
>
>>
>>> 2)* Getting the CTP straight out!
>>>
>>> *If you are an official CTP or think of becoming one, this information
>>> will clear out the price for it.
>>> *Open**ERP *highly recommends to set 2.500 EUR/person/5 day training.
>>> Moreover, we have set a
>>>
>>> bottom price of 2.000 EUR/person/5 day training.
>>>
>>>
>> Hello Nicoleta,
>>
>> I don't know if those prices apply to developing countries...
>>
>> Let me share our experience: we just hold the first Brazilian CTP
>> trainings here (we are actually running the tech one right now).
>> We sold at 1500 USD, taking on our own margins (eg we pay the same to
>> OpenERP SA than say a US partner (!)) and even with large promotion channels
>> (like 200 BR contacts and 200 BR people on the Launchpad mailing list), we
>> "only" had:
>> - 8 people for the user training in Sao Paulo
>> - 3 people for the tech training in Rio de Janeiro
>>
>> So given the investments we had to make (like 6 expert man months on the
>> BR localization, without it OpenERP i not usable here), yes we do have a
>> return, but it's has just been like not more than a regular ERP project work
>> for that first shoot (hopefully next shoots are going to be a bit better).
>>
>> But ideally we would have had 2x 13 people, even with a lower price, even
>> you OpenERP SA would have earn more... I'm not asking to lower the price
>> even more, but I tell you, increasing the price would definitely make people
>> run away.
>>
>> I want to insist that here, 1500 USD is already perceived as very
>> expensive, specially considering that OpenERP SA does nearly nothing to
>> support our localization yet (14 extra modules...) which leaves usage of
>> OpenERP pretty complex here (because on on_change implementation you have to
>> manually tweak module dependencies after module installation and all sort of
>> tricks...), meaning the investment will extend a lot more beyond that
>> training to implement or get OpenERP implemented.
>> People have to pay a travel here cause Brazil is big, pay accommodation,
>> stay 5 days out of their companies...
>>
>> 1500 USD is already like 20% more expensive than a Pentaho equivalent 40
>> hours training by a certified partner in Sao Paulo for instance (
>> http://www.wba.com.br/index.php/eventos/seminrio-securitizao-de-ativos-empresariais/ ).
>> I know that BI is not as complex as an ERP, but Pentaho at least works out
>> of the box here so I mean, the investment is more easily returned.
>>
>>
>> I just want to come to the point: I think it's extremely important to
>> define zone prices for OpenERP just like other products tend to do. Not all
>> countries have the same standard of living, it's important to develop a
>> compatible offer rather than encourage forks or non official offers. Do not
>> forget the Compiere/Adempiere story that all began in developing countries
>> mostly because of incompatible pricing policies from the Compiere
>> Californian company.
>>
>>
>> What we can do is stick to 1500 USD and abandon any help from OpenERP SA
>> as you mention. I think for the commercial help it's okay to skip it.
>> However, I think it would better if could benefit from the Eventbrite
>> visibility even bellow 2000 USD here.
>> We do not sell cheaper because we are bad guys, we are actually are the
>> first who invested in OpenERP in Brazil and supported you, now we
>> should accommodate to the economics reality, remembering that here SAP, M$,
>> Sage, Netsuite and other tradition big ERP players only have 3% of the SMB
>> market share because of those realities, so I mean being cheaper than them
>> doesn't actually help here...
>>
>> Also I don't think there could be inter-continental price competitions. US
>> people are not going to travel here to receive a Portuguese training with
>> Brazilian fiscality. And inside a geographical zone, people are facing the
>> same economical realities.
>>
>> Anyway, I'm saying that because I think developing countries are one of
>> your largest potential thanks to the volume and I hope we are not left on
>> the side of the road of your pricing policies.
>>
>> We also see that 1500 USD (or your 2000 USD) is actually:
>>
>>    - very expensive for an SMB
>>    - almost cheap for a specialized ERP/IT integrator
>>
>> Of course one could only target ERP/IT integrators. But, I don't recommend
>> doing that as IMHO this would make OpenERP a bubble product much like
>> Openbravo has been. We need true implementations we cannot only leave on the
>> back of wannabee professionals with no real success stories behind. Also,
>> very few of those professional will actually be able to integrate OpenERP
>> the way it is currently (hopefully this situation is improving over the
>> years), so we have to pay attention not living on false expectations. Let's
>> remind us that we should have at least 10 success stories per integrator to
>> have a sustainable steady state.
>>
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>>
>> Best Regards.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Raphaël Valyi
>> Founder and consultant
>> +55 21 3010 9965
>> www.akretion.com
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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>>
>>
>
>
> --
> Ana Juaristi Olalde
> Avanzosc, S.L.
> Partner OpenERP
> www.anajuaristi.com
> www.openerpsite.com
> www.avanzosc.com
> Skype: avanzosc
> 677 93 42 59 - 943 02 69 02
>
>
>
>
> --
> Raphaël Valyi
> Founder and consultant
> +55 21 3010 9965
> www.akretion.com
>
>
>
>