openerp-community team mailing list archive

[Pedro Manuel Baeza Romero <pedro.baeza@xxxxxxxxx>]

Hi, Fabien,

I also agree that your migration process against community process
(OpenUpgrade and others) is and will be in a short time more efficient and
with better quality than any community process, simply by actual numbers of
people working on both solutions. But this can reverse if more people
decide to invest on community solution instead of your services. And this
can happen if enough people consider that the services are not balanced as
I do.

First of all, attach migration services to a services pack (OpenERP
enterprise) is not good for everyone. The approach of all or nothing gets
usually the nothing part from people. Why wasting this slice of business?
One answer can be that migration service costs are mixed in the total cost
of the pack, but as you are saying, you share the efforts between all your
customers. If I only want migration service, please quote me this service
with a real and adjusted price, and probably I hire these services...

Second, and derived from the first one, the criterion used for this pack,
the number of users, is not fair and asymmetric, because you can have a lot
of users working only on one area of the ERP (as most of my customers do,
with a manufacturing profile, where a lot of workers need to access the
system to enter some operational data from manufacturing area), and it gets
the same price (or even greater) than other systems that use a lot of areas
(CRM, purchase, accounting, etc). I know that you have to take one
approach, but IMHO this is not the best approach. I don't want to be
sticked to schemas similar to closed source license systems, because that
was the reason I ran off from these systems. I don't want to have a great
discount per user if I have this manufacturing process. I want the freedom
to add or remove users as I wish, and only pay for the area I'm using. This
is not so difficult to implement, because you have a closed number of
modules in the core, and you can price them (even in packs, if you want to
simplify), and the partner channel can get the same sales treatment:
discount over global numbers.

So, please think about it and why some community people doesn't buy your
services. I like to compare this with music and movies piracy: I don't want
all free, but I don't want also buy with your restricted rules.

Regards.


2014-01-31 Fabien Pinckaers <fp@xxxxxxxxxxx>

>
>> *Fabien said:* for migration, use OpenERP Entreprise !
>>
>
> Yes, here is why I am convinced it's the right way to build a sustainable
> business:
>
> 1/ partners that resell OpenERP Enterprise sees new versions and upgrades
> as new business opportunities (you can offer new features, ...)
> 2/ companies that do not use OpenERP Enterprise sees migrations as a
> painful process that costs a lot and they try to avoid it. They stick to
> old versions until it becomes a nightmare to manage (exactly like in the
> SAP world where customers have to switch and leave their solution after 7
> years)
>
> And here are the result in the long term:
>
> 1/ partners with OpenERP Enterprise have customers that evolve with the
> software. You can propose new features every year, your bugs are fixed and
> pushed in the stable branch, ... They are able to deliver more and more
> values to their customers through new versions, bugfixes that are ported in
> the stable branch, ...
>
> 2/ Those that try to do everything by themselves don't do too much
> migrations as it's a painful and costly process [0]. They do their own
> hacks to deliver something but it's not a good quality enough [1] They
> usually have customers running on old versions on OpenERP and have
> difficulties to deliver more services to them. Most of legacy code ends up
> not evolving anymore [2]
>
> [0] Why is it cheaper to go through our own services? because we share the
> effort on thousands customers. We build a great platform once, strong
> process with people that do migrations every day and become very good in
> that. In the future, we think we will be able to migrate (code+data)
> localisations module for just 50 EURO (because we divide the cost amongst the
> total number of customers). This is a real solution to the sustainability
> problem of localisation modules in some countries.
>
> [1] Why I think a DIY approach or OpenUpgrade is not a good service?
> Because a new version is around 200 man*days of preparations to develop a
> clean migration system. Our service, for one specific version, becomes very
> good after we have migrated 100 customers because it's very complex to
> detect all the small details required for a clean upgrade. If you do it
> yourself, you will miss most details and you will detect bugs every week
> during 3 months after the migration. Not a good service for a customer.
>
> [2] One year after the release of the v7 ,in countries where we don't have
> that much OpenERP Enterprise, account modules are not ported to v7 yet. Can
> you imagine asking your customer to wait one year if he needs to evolve?
> This is not a good service. Just have a look at the module graveyard of
> modules from v6.1 that are still not ported to v7. If everyone would have a
> maintenance contract that allows upgrade, OpenERP would not have such
> sustainability problems.
>
> *But:*
>>
>> 1- I use OpenERP community module to be able to have OpenERP that can do
>> the job for my french company (Services on OpenERP, OpenSource ..)
>>
>
> Everyone uses community module.
> And our migration services are organized to work on top of this
> efficiently.
>
>
>> 2- I have no OpenERP entreprise now, because when they do a migration,
>> they migrate the core, and deactivate other modules. but how can you
>> migrate crm.meeting to calendar.event if community module add some date on
>> it ? how OpenERP take care of this ?
>>
>
> No, that's not what we do.
>
> We give you a database where the core is upgraded and your modules are
> still there but you have to continue the migration on your own modules. (or
> we also have a service where we cover 100% of the job, for just 800 EURO per
> 1000 lines of code).
>
>
>>
>> How do you manage this ?
>> By migrating I think: migrate code, view but also Existing Datas.
>>
>
> Yes, our service covers everything:
>   - upgrade of the code (code, adaptation to new report engine, ...)
>   - migration of the data
>   - tests
>   - plateform to automate the process so that you can replay it when you
> want
>   - unlimited bugfixes tickets related to the software or the migration
> service.
>
> Oh, and it does not cost anything to upgrade! You can even ask us to
> upgrade a v6.1 customer in v7 just to organize a demo to him to sell him
> new features:services. Even if you are not sure he will upgrade, you can
> ask us to upgrade; just to test.
>
>
>
> Fabien
>
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