openerp-expert-accounting team mailing list archive

[Nhomar Hernández <nhomar.hernandez@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Hello!

We should refer to Standars to, not only conceptual models:

We develop Venezuela Localization - Not Negative.
We are now developing Colombia  Localization - Not Negative.
We sopport a little coaching in Costa Rica -  Not Negative.

I think this option should be analized in several ways, and in depth,
because AFAIK even in countries where the NEgative is allowed
Contra-Accounting is Good, but in countries where contra-accounting is the
main way, NEgative is wrong!

regards....
2010/8/30 David Mitchell <david@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>

> OpenERP appears to be built with the “contra-accounting” approach. So the
> rule is to reverse transactions (e.g. an invoice) you have to create a
> “Credit Memo”. The default behavior for transaction reversal is to disallow
> negative transactions - obviously with the code you identified below.
>
> In many countries negative transaction lines are looked upon unfavorably by
> auditors and the expectation is that transactions are reversed using contra
> accounting. Based on our knowledge these countries include (but are not
> limited to): United Kingdom, and the United States, etc. <--I believe Spain
> falls here as well - but you would know better than us on this one.
>
> Negative Accounting is known as Storno accounting.
>
> Allowing Negative transactions are considered best practice in some
> countries like:
>
>    -
>
>    Czech Republic
>    -
>
>    Poland
>    -
>
>    Romania
>    -
>
>    Russia
>    -
>
>    Slovakia
>    -
>
>    Ukraine
>
> Some systems allow for transaction reversal by using negative values. In
> this case they often have an “Allow Negative” option (boolean flag) –
> associated with a particular accounting schema, and in some instances also
> at the individual document level.
>
> We actually see three flags present to drive storno logic:
>
> Reversal Entry (boolean) – default off
>
> Reversal Closing Entry (boolean) – default off
>
> Reversal P&L General Ledger Accounts (boolean) – only available if Reversal
> Entry boolean is True, default off.
>
> This accounting only affects Profit/Loss statements and should have no
> affect on Balance Sheets.
>
>
> By default we believe OpenERP should default to contra accounting methods –
> with the ability to enable negative transactions for specific countries with
> configuration settings in the future
>
> Other competitors support it  . . .OpenBravo supports both approaches.
> Exact is another software package that supports both – referenced later in
> this document.
>
> Like your example, if a sales invoice document generates the following
> transactions lines:
>
> GL
>
> Line Type
>
> Debit
>
> Credit
>
> Receivables
>
> Sales Invoice
>
> 1,000
>
> 0
>
> Revenue
>
> Sales Invoice
>
> 0
>
> 1,000
>
>
>  In Countries where contra accounting is popular to reverse an entry – the
> user would create a credit memo. In effect reversing the original Sales
> Invoice Entry.
>
> GL
>
> Line Type
>
> Debit
>
> Credit
>
> Receivables
>
> Sales Invoice
>
> 0
>
> 1000
>
> Revenue
>
> Sales Invoice
>
> 1000
>
> 0
>
>
>  TO REVERSE A TRANSACTION WITH STORNO Accounting – Negative Accounting
>
> If the Allow Negative option is selected, when a transaction is reversed,
> the system will allow the creation of the following negative transaction
> lines.
>
> GL
>
> Line Type
>
> Debit
>
> Credit
>
> Receivables
>
> Sales Invoice
>
> -1,000
>
> 0
>
> Revenue
>
> Sales Invoice
>
> 0
>
> -1,000
>
>
>  Exact software has a nice chart which shows some of the transactions and
> their disposition between contra accounting and storno accounting. The issue
> I believe that is larger is actually reporting on the P&L statement. This
> provides a good overview.
>
> http://www.exactsoftware.com/Docs/DocView.aspx?DocumentID
> ={d1e369f9-69d4-4782-8757-79bc0a637e8e}
>
>
>  It would be curious to hear from the affected countries that adopt Storno
> Accounting. Perhaps there is already a set of localized modules that allow
> this to jumpstart the storno support in the ecosystem. Anyone??
>
> Personally, I’d like to see the system stabilized using contra-accounting
> first (and run really really well) – and then if there is demand – have the
> system support storno accounting leveraging the work already done – if there
> is any.
>
> David Mitchell
>
> President
>
> NovaPoint Group LLC
>
>
>
>  Storno accounting is obviously being supported by other “competitive
> software applications”.
>
>
> On Mon, Aug 30, 2010 at 4:14 AM, "Borja López Soilán (Pexego)" <
> borjals@xxxxxxxxx> wrote:
>
>>  Hi accounting experts.
>>
>> I have a question for you: *It is really needed that the debit and credit
>> are positive?*
>>
>> (I posted the question on LP:
>> https://answers.launchpad.net/openobject-addons/+question/123322; I will
>> update it with the given answers)
>>
>>
>> Currently on the OpenERP accounting we have some constraints like this
>> one:
>>
>> _sql_constraints = [
>>         ...
>>         ('credit_debit2', 'CHECK (credit+debit>=0)', 'Wrong credit or
>> debit value in model !'),
>>     ]
>>
>> That 'credit_debit2' constraint is checking that the accounting entries
>> are always positive. But the question is:
>>
>> Is it really needed? Why shouldn't we use negative entries?
>>
>> I mean, on Spain nothing prevents to use negative accounting entries, so a
>> lot of accountants are used to do that on some specific cases, like some
>> kinds of refunds (that also means that accounting programs usually allow the
>> users to do it).
>>
>> So, on paper, to cancel this sale invoice:
>>
>>                         Debit      Credit
>> (430) Customers         118
>> (700) Sales                           100
>> (477) Taxes                            18
>>
>>
>> Some accountants would create accounting entries like this one if the
>> invoice was just invalid (a cancel):
>>
>>                         Debit      Credit
>> (430) Customers         -118
>> (700) Sales                          -100
>> (477) Taxes                           -18
>>
>>
>> Instead of this other option that would be used mostly when doing a real
>> refund of the goods:
>>
>>                          Debit      Credit
>> (7080) Refunds             100
>> (477) Taxes                 18
>> (430) Customers                        118
>>
>>
>> But currently on OpenERP the first option is not possible.
>>
>> I think that the "allow negative values" should be an option per journal,
>> so in countries requiring positive values this can be enforced, but on
>> countries that allow negative moves this check can be disabled.
>>
>> What do you think?
>>
>> --
>> Borja López Soilánborjals@xxxxxxxxx
>>
>> Pexego Sistemas Informáticos S.L.
>> Avenida de Magoi 66 - 27002 Lugo (España)
>> Tel./Fax 982801517http://www.pexego.es
>>
>>
>> AVISO LEGAL - CLÁUSULA DE PRIVACIDAD
>> Este mensaje se dirige exclusivamente a su destinatario y puede contener información privilegiada o confidencial. Si no es usted el destinatario indicado, queda informado de que la utilización, divulgación y/o copia sin autorización está prohibida en virtud de la legislación vigente. Si ha recibido este mensaje por error, le rogamos que nos lo comunique inmediatamente por esta misma vía y proceda a su destrucción.
>>
>>
>> _______________________________________________
>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-expert-accounting<https://launchpad.net/%7Eopenerp-expert-accounting>
>> Post to     : openerp-expert-accounting@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-expert-accounting<https://launchpad.net/%7Eopenerp-expert-accounting>
>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>
>>
>
> _______________________________________________
> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openerp-expert-accounting
> Post to     : openerp-expert-accounting@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openerp-expert-accounting
> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>
>


-- 
Saludos Cordiales

Nhomar G. Hernandez M.
+58-414-4110269
+58-212-6615932
+58-212-9536734 ext 124
+58-212-9512643
Skype: nhomar00
Web-Blog: http://geronimo.com.ve
Servicios IT: http://openerp.netquatro.com
Linux-Counter: 467724
Correos:
nhomar.hernandez@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
nhomar@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx