openerp-expert-accounting team mailing list archive

["Ferdinand @ ChriCar" <659540@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

On Saturday 06 November 2010 P. Christeas wrote:
> On Wednesday 13 October 2010, you wrote:
> > Public bug reported:
> > 
> > IMHO a serious accounting issue
> >...that posted entries
> > may not be altered in a way that the original posting can't be reproduced.
> > 
> > violating this principle  ... will not be accepted by the fiscal 
authorities.
> 
> Definitely agree.
> 
> On a production system, where OpenERP is used for /official/ [1] accounting, 
a 
> hard rule[4] must be imposed that accounting moves [2] should not be altered 
> or deleted.
> 
> That said, this rule might be useful for other models, too [3].
> 
> 
> [1] Some installations chose to install OpenERP and then send the accounting 
> data to their chartered accountants, which do the official bookkeeping. In 
that 
> case, the "first-level" accounting is not bound by the law. For them, the 
hard 
> rule /need/ to be relaxed, because they would use OpenERP as a sandbox.
> 
> [2] Perhaps this could be per account (depending on country and book-keeping 
> "mode"). If they are "tax" or "invoice" or "expense/income" accounts, they 
> would be locked. If they are "petty-cash" ones, they could be relax. I 
repeat, 
> this is country-dependant (or better, chart-of-account-dependant).
> 
> [3] I can thing, at least, of the case for hospitals or medical entries, 
that 
> everything must be recorded and be able to audit. I think we have a rule 
also 
> for Hotel reservations, too, here.
> 
> [4] If implemented, it should be really *hard* to circumvent, because such a 
> loss would be violating the law. I was thinking of Pg. triggers or rules; 
yes, 
> that much. This way, it would ensure that the data is preserved, even if 
> somebody tries to mess with SQL.
I have implemented such a trigger system already 

IMHO you forgot to mention the role of implementing partners

If these have no chance to trace changes they are  "lost", because nobody can 
answer questions of clients if delteing and altering of data is arbitrary.
> 
> 
-- 
regards
Ferdinand Gassauer
ChriCar Beteiligungs- und Beratungs- GmbH
Official OpenERP Partner

-- 
[trunk] account_cancel - naming issue
https://bugs.launchpad.net/bugs/659540
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Accounting Experts, which is a direct subscriber.

Status in OpenObject Addons Modules: Confirmed

Bug description:
IMHO a serious accounting issue

./account.py:        'update_posted': fields.boolean('Allow Cancelling Entries', help="Check this box if you want to allow the cancellation the entries related to this journal or of the invoice related to this journal"),

what happens is that account_move and account_move_lines are deleted (not canceled).

http://www.iwp.or.at/Documents/GS-DV01.pdf (German) describes the basics of accounting and clearly states that
* 1.4 on page 7, that posted entries may not be altered in a way that the original posting can't be reproduced.

violating this principle might or will lead to the fact that the accounting can't be audited and will not be accepted by the fiscal authorities.
it will create gaps in ids as well as in name/ref fields and nobody will ever be able to reconstruct what happens as audittrail on account_move_line does not work (see other bug report) either

This should be clearly stated in the description.

Cancelling invoices must lead to an additional move with move_lines which revert the original move_lines. 
This and only this is the "normal" way which is accepted by fiscal authorities (at least here in Austria)