openshot.developers team mailing list archive

[Jonathan Thomas <jonathan.oomph@xxxxxxxxx>]

Yes, the framework will support Frei0r-plugins, but I have not spent too
much time working on that yet.  Much of what Frei0r provides is also
available in ImageMagick++.
-Jonathan

On Mon, Apr 18, 2011 at 11:57 AM, eolinwen@xxxxxxxxx <eolinwen@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:

> Jonathan,
> I am wondering me if this framework will use the Frei0r-plugins ? Is it the
> case ?
> I assume that you have not yet open a new project on Launchpad for him.
>
> 2011/4/12 eolinwen@xxxxxxxxx <eolinwen@xxxxxxxxx>
>
> Jonathan,
>>
>> Cimg C++ is done by the same author Davide Tschumperlé who have began to
>> work on this library and after on G'mic who use this one. G'mic comes from
>> more than 500 commands and it was not the priority of the development (but
>> more the language and the library). The best way is having a conversion with
>> this author. Perhaps, if you want we can speak on Gmail or on IRC. I can
>> join David and it will explain better his software. And I understand well
>> that a lot of work have been done on this but I am sure that we will miss
>> something and I prefer re-speak about this (vow after I will stop ^^) than
>> never.
>>
>> I have forgotten to say about on Python 3.2 that this version will be soon
>> the standard on all the Linux distribution. And she will be include on the
>> major of them. Anyway his installation is really easy and can live with the
>> normal version (2.7).
>>
>>  | I am definitely open to suggestions on how to name this library, but I
>> don't think I like a word I can't pronounce:
>> Mjöllnir. =)  Ideally, we would include the term "OpenShot" in the name.
>>  I have not put much though behind the name yet.
>>
>> Yeah , i convince.   OpenValhalla(Shot) (contraction of Openshot and
>> Valhalla) or  Open(Shot)Graal (contraction of Openshot and Graal)
>> What do you think about ?
>>
>>  | My main focus over the next few weeks will be on this new library,
>> with a goal of getting a demo put together which showcases how it works.
>>
>> Okay so I will look for the DVD Iso Creation like I have already work
>> on.............
>> Perhaps the 1.3.1 before ? And after work on the next version ? It will
>> take a lot of time and we have not give into of the habit of having a
>> version quickly.
>>
>> Cheers.
>>
>>
>> 2011/4/12 Jonathan Thomas <jonathan.oomph@xxxxxxxxx>
>>
>>> Olivier,
>>> The G'mic project is based on the Cimg C++ image library, which I also
>>> evaluated.  Cimg was very limited on image formats, and required the
>>> installation of ImageMagick to handle any unknown formats.  It seemed that
>>> ImageMagick already duplicates most of the Cimg functionality, so I thought
>>> Cimg was just an unnecessary library.  I don't think G'mic is a library, but
>>> rather an automation framework that uses the Cimg library.  Also, Cimg seems
>>> to have a rather small group of developers compared to ImageMagick.  What
>>> features does Cimg have that ImageMagick does not?  I guess that is the
>>> question to ask.
>>>
>>> I am definitely open to suggestions on how to name this library, but I
>>> don't think I like a word I can't pronounce: Mjöllnir. =)  Ideally, we
>>> would include the term "OpenShot" in the name.  I have not put much though
>>> behind the name yet.
>>>
>>> In the short term, we need to release 1.3.1, but there is still 1 bug
>>> outstanding I haven't had time to look at yet.  Yeah, any of the suggestions
>>> from our GSOC application can be worked on, and the timeline really needs to
>>> have some work put into it.  For example, I really want to address the
>>> ability to zoom in and out faster, support larger timelines (i.e. dynamic
>>> scrolling and drawing of the timeline), selection of multiple clips, etc...
>>>
>>> My main focus over the next few weeks will be on this new library, with a
>>> goal of getting a demo put together which showcases how it works.
>>>
>>> Thanks!
>>> -Jonathan
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Apr 12, 2011 at 12:02 PM, eolinwen@xxxxxxxxx <eolinwen@xxxxxxxxx
>>> > wrote:
>>>
>>>> Hi Jonathan,
>>>>
>>>> Like Andy was saying, just one word : Whaooo.
>>>>
>>>> Effectively, with the 1.3.0 version (and it has began with the previous)
>>>> , we can see the limit of the MLT framework who need some works of their
>>>> part. But we are not the master of it.
>>>>
>>>> Analysis of the existing Frameworks is really good and me too I was
>>>> having a lot of hope in the AML Framework. For nothing with the reason that
>>>> you have given us.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> * | My focus has been to develop a framework that has the following
>>>> features:*
>>>>
>>>>    - *C++ code base.  Object-oriented.  Simple API and design.  Good
>>>>    use of Exceptions and error handling.  Prevent crashing at all costs.
>>>>    *
>>>>    - *Multi-processor aware (take advantage of all available processing
>>>>    cores)*
>>>>    - *Powerful bezeir curve-based keyframe system (every setting and
>>>>    parameter should support keyframes)*
>>>>    - *A node-based audio system, including JACK support, and LADSPA
>>>>    filters.  Also, strong audio analysis, including waveforms, spectral
>>>>    analysis, time stretching / shrinking, and 3D audio (i.e. dolby / surround
>>>>    sound).  I have spent much of my time improving my understand of audio
>>>>    processing. =)*
>>>>    - *FFmpeg <http://www.ffmpeg.org/>*
>>>>    * *
>>>>    *-based, for decoding and encoding*
>>>>    - *Use a powerful image processing module: ImageMagick++<http://www.imagemagick.org/Magick++/>
>>>>    *
>>>>    * *
>>>>    - *Use a powerful audio processing module: CLAM Audio<http://clam-project.org/>
>>>>    *
>>>>    * *
>>>>    - *Python interface designed specifically for OpenShot (to minimize
>>>>    the impact to OpenShot changing multimedia back-ends)*
>>>>    - *All meta data available via the API (list of profiles, list of
>>>>    effects, parameters of effects, etc...)*
>>>>
>>>> I know that you are confident but create a Video Framework is really a
>>>> hard task and huge work. On the paper, it is very very interesting and all
>>>> benefits for us and the user.
>>>> I want to do a proposition about the Image processing module. I have a
>>>> remark about him.
>>>>  For my opinion , we should use his competitor : G'mic<http://gmic.sourceforge.net/>(instead of ImageMagick). LIke you can see, G'mic is not only a script
>>>> language (like Imagemagic)  but it is too a framework powerful stable and an
>>>> interpreter. He is packaged for all the distributions and in intensive
>>>> development and go always on forward.. You could have a look here<http://gmic.sourceforge.net/reference.shtml>,
>>>> (and here <https://bugs.launchpad.net/openshot/+bug/725303> too) in the
>>>> Gimp plugin and in EKD (development version only but you have some
>>>> possibility here<http://ekdm.wordpress.com/2011/03/02/nouveaux-filtres-image-pour-ekd-implementation-finalisee-le-02032011/>
>>>> , here<http://ekdm.wordpress.com/2010/07/21/quand-ekd-rencontre-gmic-premiere-partie/>
>>>> , here<http://ekdm.wordpress.com/2010/07/23/quand-ekd-rencontre-g%E2%80%99mic-deuxieme-partie/>,
>>>> and here<http://ekdm.wordpress.com/2010/07/27/quand-ekd-rencontre-g%e2%80%99mic-troisieme-partie/>).
>>>>
>>>> I insist but please see your position.  I believe like hard iron that if
>>>> we don't use it we miss something and pass beside something essential for
>>>> the image.  the both could give (and the other modules of course) a awesone
>>>> powerful, impressive software.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Thinking at something else, we could use Python 3.2 instead of 2.7. It
>>>> is the occasion
>>>>
>>>> Tell me when you will post a blog entry, I am going to prepare something
>>>> that I will adapt after.
>>>>
>>>> A version like this, should be at least a version ..........3.0 (no I am
>>>> laughing the 2.0 will be perfect. ^ ^ )
>>>>
>>>> A name for this framework will be very nicely. Have you think at
>>>> something ? I will see well *Mjöllnir *the name of the Thor 's hammer.
>>>> It will be perfect for this framework who is your armed arm for Openshot.
>>>> Now, with this, we will playing in the taller playground.
>>>>
>>>> With all this features (audio have a big part in it), I have some
>>>> contacts with a strong and mainly audio French community (and    to be more
>>>> precise with the Tango Studio) <http://tangostudio.tuxfamily.org/>. I
>>>> will have (certainly) a person who will create the package for the framework
>>>> and certainly all the French audio Users (perfect for the test :=) ). I hope
>>>> to see it in the RMLL (the 5 & 6 July if I can go ) and If it is not
>>>> possible for the Ubuntu Party of November, I will go to Paris for that.
>>>> Since the time that I want to go to t this event).
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> * |
>>>> *
>>>> *That is big news. If you're confident you can do it, then go for it.
>>>> It will be a huge advantage for Openshot to have it's own library, and as
>>>> you say will eliminate a lot of library problems if the library is under our
>>>> control (although format support will still be ffmpeg dependent?).*
>>>> *
>>>> *
>>>> *A quick word on the audio front - LV2 is rapidly becoming the new
>>>> standard for audio plugins, so we should aim to support that as well as
>>>> LADSPA :-)*
>>>> *
>>>> *
>>>> *Look forward to seeing the results!*
>>>>
>>>> Totally agree with Andy. Same if I am a bit afraid with the framework,
>>>> let's go onward. Go go go .
>>>>
>>>> What do you plan a short term ? Did we began to developp something or
>>>> not ? What are the plan for the ...........suit. Can I implement DVD iso
>>>> Creation (dvd creator and a Export module iso (like the draft of  the GSoc)
>>>> ?
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Cheers.
>>>>
>>>> 2011/4/12 Jonathan Thomas <jonathan.oomph@xxxxxxxxx>
>>>>
>>>>> Andy,
>>>>> Yes, I am confident I can do it, as I've already put down quite a bit
>>>>> of code and I am really feeling good about it all.  The formats and codecs
>>>>> will still be driven by FFmpeg and which codecs it was installed with.  LV2
>>>>> is also supported by the CLAM audio library, so that should not be an issue.
>>>>>  I am just trying to push myself to get everything wrapped up quickly so I
>>>>> can get it onto LaunchPad.  =)
>>>>>
>>>>> Also, once we get a somewhat working and complete version of the
>>>>> framework, we can branch OpenShot and starting integrating everything in
>>>>> it's own branch.  Finally, once the new branch is stable and all of us
>>>>> developers are happy with OpenShot, we'll merge this branch back into the
>>>>> main trunk.  Possibly this could be version 2.0 of OpenShot?
>>>>>
>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>> -Jonathan
>>>>>
>>>>> On Mon, Apr 11, 2011 at 4:31 PM, Andy Finch <we.rocked.in79@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> One word -  Whoa!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That is big news. If you're confident you can do it, then go for it.
>>>>>> It will be a huge advantage for Openshot to have it's own library, and as
>>>>>> you say will eliminate a lot of library problems if the library is under our
>>>>>> control (although format support will still be ffmpeg dependent?).
>>>>>>
>>>>>> A quick word on the audio front - LV2 is rapidly becoming the new
>>>>>> standard for audio plugins, so we should aim to support that as well as
>>>>>> LADSPA :-)
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Look forward to seeing the results!
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Andy.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 11 April 2011 21:12, Jonathan Thomas <jonathan.oomph@xxxxxxxxx>wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hi everyone!  I have some *Big OpenShot News *today to announce to
>>>>>>> everyone!  I know I've been real quiet the past 4 to 6 weeks, but all of
>>>>>>> that is about to change.  I have been developing a new video editing
>>>>>>> library, written in C++, based on FFmpeg, and patterned after the animation
>>>>>>> framework used by Blender.  I have been thinking about this for a long time,
>>>>>>> and have a very clear vision for what I am creating.  Let me breakdown my
>>>>>>> decision, and give some supporting facts:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *MLT* has been a* great framework*, but almost all of the bugs and
>>>>>>> complaints we get are related to MLT: crashes, choppy HD video playback,
>>>>>>> choppy audio, poor JACK support, poor multi-core performance, scaling
>>>>>>> issues, poor key-frame support, limited de-interlacing options, and issues
>>>>>>> with frame accuracy when seeking.  As we move forward with OpenShot, it is
>>>>>>> important we solve and improve these highly complex issues.  The way I see
>>>>>>> it, we have 3 options when it comes to improving the video framework
>>>>>>> that OpenShot uses.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    - *Option 1:* Enhance the MLT framework
>>>>>>>       - With an aging C code base, limited key-frame support, buggy
>>>>>>>       multi-threading, the work required and the risk is very high to enhance some
>>>>>>>       of the core features in MLT.  C has no error handling, no support for
>>>>>>>       object-oriented code, and other issues that make development more difficult.
>>>>>>>    - *Option 2:* Switch to the AML framework<https://launchpad.net/ardome-ml> (developed
>>>>>>>    by Charlie Yates, one of the original developers of MLT)
>>>>>>>       - Although I was initially excited about this option, it has
>>>>>>>       become difficult to contact Charlie, and the framework has not been modified
>>>>>>>       since mid-2010.  However, this project inherits much of it's code from
>>>>>>>       another (even older project), and thus it is quite complex.
>>>>>>>    - *Option 3:* Create a new framework, with complete control over
>>>>>>>    stability, design, and features
>>>>>>>       - This is a high risk option, but has the greatest advantage,
>>>>>>>       as the code base can be designed around OpenShot, and only contain the
>>>>>>>       features we need
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> After much research and consideration, I have chosen option 3.  This
>>>>>>> required creating many simple proof-of-concept C++ applications and many
>>>>>>> conversations with the upstream projects that would be involved in such
>>>>>>> an endeavorer.  At this point, I have proven all the concepts that needed
>>>>>>> proving, and I am feeling very confident about the design and implementation
>>>>>>> at this point.
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>> *
>>>>>>> *My focus* has been to develop a framework that has the following
>>>>>>> features:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    - C++ code base.  Object-oriented.  Simple API and design.  Good
>>>>>>>    use of Exceptions and error handling.  Prevent crashing at all costs.
>>>>>>>    - Multi-processor aware (take advantage of all available
>>>>>>>    processing cores)
>>>>>>>    - Powerful bezeir curve-based keyframe system (every setting and
>>>>>>>    parameter should support keyframes)
>>>>>>>    - A node-based audio system, including JACK support, and LADSPA
>>>>>>>    filters.  Also, strong audio analysis, including waveforms, spectral
>>>>>>>    analysis, time stretching / shrinking, and 3D audio (i.e. dolby / surround
>>>>>>>    sound).  I have spent much of my time improving my understand of audio
>>>>>>>    processing. =)
>>>>>>>    - FFmpeg <http://www.ffmpeg.org/>-based, for decoding and
>>>>>>>    encoding
>>>>>>>    - Use a powerful image processing module: ImageMagick++<http://www.imagemagick.org/Magick++/>
>>>>>>>    - Use a powerful audio processing module: CLAM Audio<http://clam-project.org/>
>>>>>>>    - Python interface designed specifically for OpenShot (to
>>>>>>>    minimize the impact to OpenShot changing multimedia back-ends)
>>>>>>>    - All meta data available via the API (list of profiles, list of
>>>>>>>    effects, parameters of effects, etc...)
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> What's next?  Soon (i.e. in the next 2 weeks hopefully) I will wrap
>>>>>>> up my initial framework code and start setting up the project in LaunchPad.
>>>>>>>  Realistically, there is about 6 weeks of work left for me to achieve all
>>>>>>> the features I want.  The development of this framework will be fast and
>>>>>>> will be very focused, so I don't expect this to take very long to complete.
>>>>>>>  Of course, once LaunchPad has the source code, we will need to "hopefully"
>>>>>>> recruit some other C++ programmers to help us out, especially with the build
>>>>>>> process and packaging.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> *The big picture:*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>    - *Great Stability*
>>>>>>>    - *Better Performance*
>>>>>>>    - *A huge increase in the number of image and audio effects
>>>>>>>    (including JACK support)*
>>>>>>>    - *Animation key-frame system that rivals Hollywood animation
>>>>>>>    packages*
>>>>>>>    - *Much simpler framework (i.e. less code to maintain)*
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Hopefully I have convinced everyone that this is a good decision, and
>>>>>>> not some knee jerk decision. =)  I am very excited about this, and I have no
>>>>>>> doubt we can achieve these results very quickly.  Soon I will announce this
>>>>>>> on my blog, but I wanted to get feedback from our OpenShot Developers team
>>>>>>> first.  So, please let me know what you think.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks!
>>>>>>> -Jonathan
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openshot.developers
>>>>>>> Post to     : openshot.developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openshot.developers
>>>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> _______________________________________________
>>>>> Mailing list: https://launchpad.net/~openshot.developers
>>>>> Post to     : openshot.developers@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
>>>>> Unsubscribe : https://launchpad.net/~openshot.developers
>>>>> More help   : https://help.launchpad.net/ListHelp
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> Olivier
>>>> Cenwen un elfe sur la banquise/ an elve on the ice
>>>> Mon blog perso  sur le multimédia, Ubuntu, Linux et OpenShot :
>>>> http://linuxevolution.wordpress.com/
>>>> Le forum d'Openshot où vous me trouverez : http://openshotusers.com/
>>>> http://openshotusers.com/forum/index.php
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>> --
>> Olivier
>> Cenwen un elfe sur la banquise/ an elve on the ice
>> Mon blog perso  sur le multimédia, Ubuntu, Linux et OpenShot :
>> http://linuxevolution.wordpress.com/
>> Le forum d'Openshot où vous me trouverez : http://openshotusers.com/
>> http://openshotusers.com/forum/index.php
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Olivier
> Cenwen un elfe sur la banquise/ an elve on the ice
> Mon blog perso  sur le multimédia, Ubuntu, Linux et OpenShot :
> http://linuxevolution.wordpress.com/
> Le forum d'Openshot où vous me trouverez : http://openshotusers.com/
> http://openshotusers.com/forum/index.php
>