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Message #00132
Re: [education-wg] Karen Cator
FYI - Didn't know if you knew of this.....
On Fri, 2010-04-09 at 07:53 -0400, Casey Adams wrote:
> Matt,
>
>
>
> If you are not working with Chris Whiteley, creator of openZIS, you
> should check it out: education-wg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx He has an
> open source SIF solution well developed and has done integration work
> now with commercial vendors, MA DOE and some UK agencies. I highly
> recommend him. Thanks
>
>
> Casey Adams
> Founder, OS4Ed
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 9, 2010 at 4:17 AM, Matt Burkhardt <mlb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>
> On Thu, 2010-04-08 at 14:19 -0400, Kevin Cole wrote:
>
> > I hope my *very* humble comments can help shape the message...
> >
> > On Thu, Apr 8, 2010 at 13:51, Mike <mhuffman@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> >
> > > How do we invest in open source?
> > >
> > > Identify some funding that can be used for projects in K-12 schools that
> > > rely on open source software. This is clearly this first step to making
> > > anything significant happen. This is also a good way to develop some working
> > > models. Perhaps various models should be explored. One model would include
> > > full open source from operating system forward. Another model might consider
> > > open-source products on proprietary OS's. We need to get to the point that
> > > we can take schools where they are and help them to move forward. It is
> > > unrealistic to think that schools will discard all products currently in use
> > > and move to new, different products.
> >
> > When schools decide to transition from Apple to Microsoft or vice
> > versa, how do they migrate? Also, my thinking about "investing"
> > includes student involvement: Since many schools have community
> > service requirements and internship opportunities, look for students
> > who are bright and curious to help. They will require some management
> > from either educators or professionals (or both) but if there's either
> > financial gain or prestige / recognition to be gained, forming those
> > kinds of partnerships are a real investment.
>
> I think there's also the idea of developing new software. For
> example, I'm currently working with a co-op of charter schools
> to add functionality to two current open source packages
> called SchoolTool and CanDo using an I3 grant. Hopefully
> we'll end up with the money, but the bigger picture is that
> this new functionality will be able to be used by any other
> school. FYI, it's to add SIF compliance, XML import and
> export capabilities and better reporting.
>
> > > How do we determine if open source software is effective?
> > >
> > > In my opinion this is the wrong question. Do we ask “is Microsoft software
> > > effective?” “Is Apple software effective?” No. We tend to look at
> > > achievement levels after students have used various types of software. Our
> > > experience in Indiana showed little difference between proprietary software
> > > and open-source software. (Although we ran out of time to fully document
> > > this information before the program was substantially changed.)
> >
> > And the question is too "Effective how?" (or "Effective at what?") If
> > all you're measuring is "can a spreadsheet add numbers" or "does the
> > geography drill give the right answers" then, a lot of solutions will
> > work, proprietary or otherwise. If, on the other hand, people are
> > able to tap the talent to redesign and redistribute, it's the
> > potential for innovation and customization which makes it exciting.
> > (On a more mundane level, one could look at total cost of ownership,
> > including licensing, number of programmer / sysadmin hours per person
> > per computer, anti-virus costs, etc. But I'm not really any good with
> > those kinds of numbers.)
>
> I agree and can't add anything substantial to these
> responses.
>
> > > The biggest challenge is ACCESS. We found that the average high school
> > > student averaged 30-45 minutes per WEEK using technology in schools. At
> > > that usage level it would be hard to determine if brushing teeth was
> > > effective, let alone the more difficult issue of technology.
> > >
> > > Perhaps the question should be, how do we determine if technology is
> > > effective? How do we gauge the effectiveness of software compared to its
> > > price? Would we be better off taking the money we spend for software and
> > > hardware and putting it into additional personnel? Should we look at the
> > > types of software that we are using? The fact that a school project has
> > > technology does not necessarily mean that it is successful or desirable.
>
> I think the TCO argument is best used here.
>
> > >
> > > Is the model sustainable?
> > >
> > > This is a difficult one on several levels. I am hoping that her main concern
> > > is sustaining the model that is established for K-12 schools. The ultimate
> > > model should consider everything: hardware costs, software costs,
> > > professional development costs, and implementation practice. I am not
> > > certain that we are looking at these things now as we implement systems in
> > > schools. Although it is a good idea and we should be doing this, the
> > > question needs to be be more broadly applied to technology used throughout
> > > K-12 education.
> >
> > Sustainable? Is anything "sustainable" in the 21st century, where
> > products are obsolete before they're released? I would say open
> > source is "migratable" especially if you're stressing open standards
> > for data. I love Linux, but keep my eye on other open-source OS's out
> > there and haven't sworn fealty to Emperor Tux forever, nor even to his
> > relatives of the *nix family. It's hard to build that kind of dynamic
> > flexibility into big organizations, but I think it's KEY for education
> > to make a valiant effort to do so.
> >
>
> If she's starting from zero on the open source business model,
> you need to help her consider some of the business successes.
> Red Hat just posted one of their strongest quarters, same with
> Alfresco and several others. Mention that Google, Amazon,
> Facebook and other well known social sites run on open source
> software. It might be good to talk about MySQL being
> purchased for lots of money by Oracle.
>
> In addition, I think the idea of service capabilities should
> be discussed. There is an open source service business in
> every state of the union, and if schools started switching
> over, there's enough knowledge around to help start up small
> businesses.
>
> My two cents and thanks,
>
>
>
> Matt Burkhardt
> Impari Systems, Inc.
>
> mlb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://www.imparisystems.com
> http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlburkhardt
> http://www.twitter.com/matthewboh
> 502 Fairview Avenue
> Frederick, MD 21701
> work (301) 682-7901
> cell (301) 802-3235
>
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
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> education-wg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://opensourceforamerica.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/education-wg
>
>
>
>
>
> --
> Casey Adams
> Phone: 678.221.4602
> Fax: 717.326.3543.
>
>
>
>
> _______________________________________________
> education-wg mailing list
> education-wg@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> http://opensourceforamerica.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/education-wg
Matt Burkhardt
Impari Systems, Inc.
mlb@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
http://www.imparisystems.com
http://www.linkedin.com/in/mlburkhardt
http://www.twitter.com/matthewboh
502 Fairview Avenue
Frederick, MD 21701
work (301) 682-7901
cell (301) 802-3235
