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[bengalih <question193849@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Question #193849 on Sikuli changed:
https://answers.launchpad.net/sikuli/+question/193849

bengalih posted a new comment:
I wasn't inferring you thought I was a fool...I had hoped it was a
rhetorical question as I am pretty confident I have shown some degree of
competence with my initial script and taking your generous revisions
into account :)

Regarding the "Criticism" statement:  I feel there is a big difference
between a criticism and a suggestion/having ones own views.  A criticism
would be that I thought the way you did something was poor/inefficient
regardless of viewpoint - that I felt it held true for all situations -
and that I though it was bad judgement/poor form.  In this regard I have
no criticism towards anything discussed.  I tend to never even use the
work criticize and in general dislike when others use it (e.g. "I just
have one minor criticism...").  In most cases "suggestion" is more apt.

I do not back down or excuse myself in the least for having my own
viewpoint - which I have conveyed above.  What the Sikuli team chooses
to do with that - who they choose to target, how they choose to layout
the docs, etc - is fully their decision.  And the decision not to cater
(as much) to those who are not professionals is a perfectly valid
decision - one that shouldn't be criticized.  I don't know the Sikuli
base - in my head I am making an assumption that your users fall into 3
major categories:

1) Professional developers who are most likely using Sikuli integrated
with larger projects (like QA testing).  These guys know what they are
doing and get paid for it.  Some of these users may also be playing with
Sikuli for small projects of a personal nature.

2) Total new bees who are not interested in anything more than point-
and-click.  As I think you mentioned before people who are looking at a
way to script games, etc.

3) The middle area - users like me who are not professional coders, but
have some degree of knowledge in coding and syntax (personally my
experience is with scripting langauges: original BASIC, batch
programming, VB script, Mortscript, PowerShell, and a moderate degree of
VB, some HTML/ASP, and various degrees of hacking at some more advanced
stuff).

I'm not sure how the above actually breaks down into percentages.
Personally, if I were tackling support/documentation I would just about
disregard the #2 set.  Mostly since I don't condone scripting to cheat
at games - but also because I would expect someone to show some level of
interest in the tool and the language and not just end-result.  Someone
else may not agree with my logic - thinking that the developer shouldn't
care about the use of the tool (just creating the tool is their onus,
not what others do with it), or that it is ONLY the end result that
matters and not how someone get there.

On the other hand, I believe you get a lot of exposure by being a partly
WYSIWYG development platform.  I actually think you have done a good job
with selling this.  The very simple tutorials following the main Demo
Video do a good job of teaching the IDE basics so that almost anyone can
get running to make a simple point-and-click.

After those few examples though it seems to be straight to the
documentation, which caters a bit more to the #1 set.  I think that this
is practical as the official docs should talk in programmatic terms and
provide the high level technical detail (outlining the classes, methods,
etc.).  I do feel that one of those new bees jumping from the IDE to the
docs (having no previous experience coding/scripting) is likely to be
utterly lost.  And, to be honest - I think that is OK - because I don't
think it is your place to teach them coding.

I do though still feel that there is room in the docs (or perhaps a
separate document/wiki) to assist those more in the #2 set.  Of course,
this suggestion is born of personal preference.  Perhaps the #2 set is
very small in your community and not worth the effort.  Perhaps you find
it more efficient to simply handle all the questions in this answers
forum rather than try to proactively undercut them by offering more in
the way of examples.  Perhaps you simply don't feel supporting the #2
set is necessary.  Whatever your viewpoint - it must have sound logic
behind it and therefore I would not criticize it.  I would simply offer
my experience as you may have not had feedback in the past in this area.

I am always one for healthy debate - but I don't think alternative
viewpoints should be viewed as criticism.  My very holistic acting
teacher in college was very keen on semantics when it came to things
like this.  Saying something like "You're a jerk" is not very conducive
to discourse.  Saying "When you do so-and-so it makes ME feel that you
think I'm insignificant" is a non-accusatory way of letting others know
how their actions effect you without criticizing them directly.  Yes, it
is all semantics to a degree, but one of the things that sets us apart
from the apes is our use of language :)

As far as the technical on Multi-Monitor - perhaps I am just clouded by
a block right now.  I really did breeze through most of picking up
Sikuli (by merit of the videos, docs, and your assistance).  Short of
knowing python and integrating that into my scripts, I believe I am
utilizing most of the features in my trials.  This area is putting up a
bit of a brick wall and maybe I should just step back and re-visit it
once the rest settles.  If I have issues when I actually try to
implement I will start a new topic with my specific problems.

As always, thanks for your time.

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