ubuntu-bugcontrol team mailing list archive

[Rolf Leggewie <foss@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>]

Christopher,

I'll try HARD to be brief and I know I will fail.

On 18.12.2014 18:48, Christopher M. Penalver wrote:
> My apologies for not CC'ing you, as I thought you were already subscribed.

Accepted.

> If you find something I've done alienating, I deeply and sincerely
> apologize for this. I will reflect on the intent of this e-mail, and
> how to better my triaging approach.

If you are truly interested (are you?) then I would suggest to focus on
"Do not put procedure ahead of the desire to find a true resolution".
That together with your desire to process an impossible load of open
tickets seems to create the issues with your approach.  Quantity over
Quality.

If you were to address only that, you don't even need to read further
and our quarrel is already resolved.

> e-mail me directly, like the courtesy I afforded you, but you ignored.

1) That doesn't sound like someone truly interested in introspection
2) I responded to your mail within 2 minutes of becoming aware of it
   so you are jumping to negative, premature conclusions :-(

> He is usually politically-correct so that wording
>> above is obviously purely my own, but the message sent and more
>> importantly the one that is received is clearly as stated above.
> 
> I don't think my asking original reporters for information that helps
> get their bug fixed as fast as possible speaks to that at all.

I have not once been personal witness to a ticket where the requests you
made yielded valuable information that were ultimately key to resolving
the ticket.  I'm sure they exist, though.

What I have personally witnessed on numerous occasions is silly requests
to keep people busy and to have a sense of activity and progress when in
fact most of the time nothing or very little was accomplished.  And
these requests will pop up again periodically, only broken by periods of
inactive silence.  People keep telling you how alienating that is and
you keep ignoring it, even in this very e-mail.  I kindly suggest to
re-read the part "message sent is akin" in my first mail which I believe
sums up the feeling quite well.

> There is a difference between constructive criticism, and you being
> rude by vandalizing my wiki page, which is perceived as trolling. 

... by you

Nobody is entitled to positive feedback only.  My perception of your
work is net-negative.  Yet, you censor that out and even have the guts
to call it vandalism.  Censorship makes me uneasy.

>> The procedures he uses alienate a tremendous amount of reporters and paints
>> Ubuntu in a bad light.  That makes me uneasy.
> 
> Extrapolating your opinion on one bug report to a tremendous amount is
> exaggerating.

Seriously?  I have witnessed your behavior over YEARS.  I have initially
politely asked you to change and stop.  But as you show in this very
e-mail you don't listen or even remember.  I have long since given up on
you and my only way to deal with you has until today been to try to
avoid and ignore you.

Now, even if you did not remember my name, the gist of my request can
hardly be a surprise to you.  LP is jock full of people begging you,
yelling at you, screaming at you to go and leave them and their tickets
alone.  Why is that so impossible for you EVERY.SINGLE.TIME?

> So far, triaging the way you want
> has largely been a distraction to the original reporter's issue. While
> I'm not one to stand in the way of anyone triaging, what you did in
> this example wouldn't be helpful.

Suggestion: You ask the OP of that ticket who he would prefer to
continue to handle his triage.

BTW, you added no information to that ticket while I did.

>> He is a stickler for rules which I believe he mostly
>> invented himself
> 
> All the procedures in the various team documents publicly available
> existed long before I became involved as a volunteer. If you have a
> specific critique of an article, please advise to this.

Well, but there is only one person I can recall on LP that is so anal as
to make my blood boil.  And that of countless others.  The rest of the
people doing LP work seem to find ways to do so without alienation.  If
I have time, I'll advise where procedures need to be revised.  But I'd
rather do things than talking about doing things.  As such, I do not
like the exchange we are having right now.  And I am only having it
because I am not yet sure if you are your usual self that doesn't listen
to anyone or if indeed today is the day when you actually are capable of
introspection.  I hope for the latter.

>> and should never be seen as gospel anyhow. People
>> frequently ask him to ignore their tickets and he never does.  That
>> makes me uneasy.
> 
> Extrapolating one ticket to frequently is not being fair here.

See above on "extrapolating".

You and I have YEARS of interaction and you must hear the same
complaints about a good half dozen times a DAY when I am indeed
extrapolating the amount I have *personally* witnessed.

So, since you've come this far in reading my mail, I will make my plea
again.  Take a deep breath, take a step back and introspect.  Following
rules to alienate people does not help.  Nobody asks you to
single-handedly bring the number of untriaged bugs to 0.

If you ask for information you should have a reason.  "It's in the wiki"
is in my opinion a reason, but only a weak one that should be carefully
counter-balanced with the amount of trouble it is to get that
information and the likelihood of that information providing the
break-through in triaging that ticket.  It seems to me your fellow bug
triagers are more successful in observing this balance.

Regards

Rolf