ubuntu-developer-manual team mailing list archive
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ubuntu-developer-manual team
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Mailing list archive
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Message #00107
Re: a table of contents that looks like one
The orange is just slightly off, see the highlighted bit at the side of
the pdf viewer it should be more that colour, the text is just is a
little dark.
--fagan
On Tue, 2011-01-04 at 21:40 -0500, Kyle Nitzsche wrote:
> So, I've attached two images to clarify (for the list) the look and
> feel of the previous table of contents visual design and the new
> (provisional) one.
>
> And please note that this is simply my effort to be productive and
> participate -- the decision can and should be made collectively, to
> which I defer with pleasure.
>
> Cheers,
> Kyle
>
> On 01/04/2011 08:52 PM, Kyle Nitzsche wrote:
> > On 01/04/2011 08:50 PM, Ryan Macnish wrote:
> > > There is already consensus that the book design should be in line
> > > with the new Ubuntu branding, this has all already been talked
> > > about and decided on. Rather than focus on the book design for the
> > > moment, the content still has a long way to go.
> > >
> > >
> > > I agree with Kevin, the old ToC was fine, page numbers force the
> > > reader to look for the page manually, the old ToC didnt, it was
> > > clickable.
> >
> > the new toc is clickable. if it wasn't it would be of no use.
> >
> > Cheers
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Ryan Macnish
> > >
> > > On Wed, Jan 5, 2011 at 9:42 AM, Kyle Nitzsche
> > > <kyle.nitzsche@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > I'd like to add that I also don't think the toc text
> > > should be red in color.
> > >
> > > At least because this is a barrier for people who are
> > > color blind.
> > >
> > > But also because it isn't consistent with the new ubuntu
> > > branding.
> > >
> > > it would be great if we could take some steps to implement
> > > a book design here that really feels like a clean
> > > implementation of the new Ubuntu look.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Kyle
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 01/04/2011 08:32 PM, Kyle Nitzsche wrote:
> > > Hi,
> > >
> > > This is a matter of opinion, I think, not
> > > objective reality.
> > >
> > > The toc design I just pushed is traditional and I
> > > think superior, despite the argument below.
> > >
> > > If I had to muster an argument, it would be as
> > > follows:
> > >
> > > * a toc should be visually distinct from the rest
> > > as an aid to the user finding it when scrolling
> > > (not confusing it with other textual content)
> > > * a good way to do that is the traditional way: a
> > > square layout with left justified headings and
> > > right justified page numbers with leader dots
> > > connecting them
> > > * the idea that the 'eye cannot leap' from the
> > > headings to the numbers doesn't feel true to me,
> > > and page numbers don't matter much anyway in pdfs
> > > (what matters is clicking on the heading and being
> > > taken where you want to go - whoosh)
> > > * I found the old design visually unattractive on
> > > the page with its ragged (non-justified) right
> > > wide page numbers. It just floated in empty space
> > > amorphously.
> > >
> > > My two cents.
> > >
> > > Cheers,
> > > Kyle
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > On 01/04/2011 08:20 PM, Kevin Godby wrote:
> > > 'allo.
> > >
> > > On Tue, Jan 4, 2011 at 6:51 PM, Kyle
> > > Nitzsche
> > > <kyle.nitzsche@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
> > > With bzr revision 52, I changed
> > > the table of contents design (as a
> > > working
> > > idea) so that it look like one.
> > >
> > > That is, it has chapters on the
> > > left, then leader dots, then page
> > > number on
> > > the right.
> > >
> > > This involved using the tocloft
> > > pkg and removing some seemingly
> > > unused code
> > > in ubuntu-developer-manual.cls.
> > > The table of contents (TOC) was designed
> > > the way it was because it's
> > > easier to use that way. You're not
> > > summing up a column of numbers;
> > > you're trying to locate the page number
> > > where the chapter/section
> > > begins. The reason you used leaders was
> > > because otherwise your eye
> > > would find it difficult to track across
> > > the entire width of the page
> > > to locate the proper page number. So the
> > > leaders are a poor
> > > work-around.
> > >
> > > Your design now leads to the reader to
> > > naturally group the pages
> > > numbers together in a column and the
> > > section headings together in a
> > > separate column. This is the opposite
> > > effect that you want in a table
> > > of contents.
> > >
> > > Robert Bringhurst says it better than I in
> > > his _The Elements of
> > > Typographic Style_:
> > >
> > > "Lists, such as contents pages and
> > > recipes, are opportunities to build
> > > architectural structures in which the
> > > space between elements both
> > > separates and binds. The two favorite ways
> > > of destroying such an
> > > opportunity are setting great chasms of
> > > space that the eye cannot leap
> > > without help from the hand, and setting
> > > unenlightening rows of dots
> > > (dot leaders, they are called) that force
> > > the eye to walk the width of
> > > the page like a prisoner being escorted
> > > back to its cell."
> > >
> > > I much prefer the original layout.
> > > Though, if you have specific
> > > arguments against them, I'm happy to
> > > discuss them and try to find a
> > > good solution.
> > >
> > > --Kevin
> > >
> > >
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> > >
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> > >
> > >
> >
> >
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