ubuntu-gaming team mailing list archive

[Philip Wyett <philwyett@xxxxxxx>]

On Fri, 2009-04-24 at 09:08 -0400, Danny Piccirillo wrote:
> On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 09:02, Scott Kitterman <ubuntu@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> wrote:
>         Top posting fixed.  Ugh.
>         
>         > On Fri, Apr 24, 2009 at 08:40, Scott Kitterman
>         <ubuntu@xxxxxxxxxxxxx>
>         > wrote:
>         >
>         >> First, apologies for the off topic cross-posting to many
>         lists, but it
>         >> was
>         >> really hard for me to tell which one to drop.
>         >>
>         >> > In recognition of the value of FOSS gaming, the Ubuntu
>         Gaming Team has
>         >> > been
>         >> > formed of mutual benefit to Ubuntu and FOSS gaming. As of
>         today, the
>         >> team
>         >> > is
>         >> > now open for anyone to join and participate in. Working
>         towards
>         >> improving
>         >> > FOSS games and developing its community will turn a
>         significant
>         >> barrier
>         >> > against Ubuntu adoption into an appealing reason to
>         switch.
>         >> >
>         >> > The Ubuntu Gaming Team will work to address the obstacles
>         hindering
>         >> growth
>         >> > in FOSS gaming such as the need for effective distributed
>         content
>         >> > management
>         >> > or significant investment in free content development in
>         order to
>         >> promote
>         >> > FOSS gaming through Ubuntu and Ubuntu through FOSS
>         gaming. New ideas
>         >> are
>         >> > encouraged and appreciated.
>         >>
>         >> I appreciate the enthusiasm, but with your choice of names
>         is going to
>         >> cause problems.  First, while an effort like you are
>         describing might
>         >> benefit Ubuntu, it is not about doing anything within
>         Ubuntu (the
>         >> distro),
>         >> it seems to be about trying to leverage the Ubuntu
>         community towards a
>         >> goal.
>         >>
>         >> As it happens, Ubuntu (the distro) already has a team that
>         works with
>         >> Debian on packaging FOSS games for Debian and Ubuntu.  This
>         team is the
>         >> Debian Games team.  Based on the first reply to your
>         message, you've
>         >> already created a point of confusion.  Ubuntu (the distro)
>         doesn't need
>         >> a
>         >> team to cooperate with the Debian games team as it is
>         already a joint
>         >> Debian/Ubuntu team (this isn't the only case of this -
>         another example
>         >> is
>         >> the pkg-clamav team that works on packaging clamav and
>         related
>         >> packages).
>         >>
>         >> I would encourage you to reconsider your choice of names
>         and select one
>         >> that isn't going to cause confusion.
>         >>
>         >> > FOSS gaming is important to Ubuntu as a lack of quality
>         games is one
>         >> of
>         >> > the
>         >> > most cited reasons preventing users from switching from
>         Windows.
>         >> Gamers,
>         >> > who
>         >> > currently feed off of the proprietary software model,
>         represent a
>         >> large
>         >> > and
>         >> > valuable user base. They will not even begin to gradually
>         migrate to
>         >> > Ubuntu
>         >> > until their needs are met. They are very capable of
>         understanding the
>         >> > ideological and technical benefits of using a free
>         operating system
>         >> like
>         >> > Ubuntu, and are often interested in switching, but higher
>         value is
>         >> placed
>         >> > on
>         >> > high quality gaming and the entire demographic will not
>         budge until
>         >> the
>         >> > pragmatic advantages of open source actualize through
>         FOSS gaming.
>         >> >
>         >> > The team is dedicated to FOSS gaming, and will not push
>         for commercial
>         >> > games
>         >> >  on Linux as significant effort is already put into the
>         development of
>         >> > Wine
>         >> > and pressuring video game publishers to port their work
>         to Linux. Once
>         >> > FOSS
>         >> > gaming reaches its "tipping point", code and content will
>         be easily
>         >> reused
>         >> > to foster the development of new games and innovative
>         ideas in gaming.
>         >> The
>         >> > Ubuntu Gaming Team fills a great need for an organized
>         effort to
>         >> support
>         >> > FOSS gaming.
>         >> >
>         http://pinstack.blogspot.com/2009/04/announcing-ubuntu-gaming-team.html
>         >>
>         >> I think you are using the name Ubuntu here is a way that is
>         really
>         >> confusing.  This isn't about Ubuntu gaming, it's about FOSS
>         game
>         >> development.
>         >>
>         >> > Launchpad:
>         
>         >>
>         https://edge.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-gaming<https://edge.launchpad.net/%7Eubuntu-gaming>
>         >> > Wiki: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/GamingTeam
>         >> > #ubuntu-gaming <
>         >> http://java.freenode.net//index.php?channel=ubuntu-gaming>
>         >>
>         >> > Ubuntu-devel-discuss mailing list
>         >>
>         >> Finally, you sent this to an Ubuntu development list.  This
>         list is to
>         >> discuss development of Ubuntu.  Your announcement seems to
>         be at most
>         >> about development ON Ubuntu, not development OF Ubuntu.  I
>         think it's
>         >> off
>         >> topic.
>         >>
>         >> I would encourage you to consider your goal and brand your
>         team more
>         >> appropriately to that goal.
>         
>         
>         > Could a solution be to simply link to Debian/Ubuntu games
>         team for
>         > packaging? It may have caused a tiny bit of confusion with
>         the
>         > announcement,
>         > but i really don't foresee any other confusion. If it
>         becomes a problem
>         > then
>         > it'll definitely be worth changing, but i don't think it
>         will be.
>         
>         
>         It already is a problem.  I think this team is woefully
>         misnamed.
>         
>         The Debian games team is not the packaging subsidiary of your
>         team.
>         
>         As I said, I think you chose very poorly in your approach to
>         naming this
>         team.  There is nothing Ubuntu specific about it.
>         
>         Scott K
> 
> Alright, i'll bottom-post for you =]
> 
> It's already a problem? Really? The problem i think you're trying to
> say is simply confusing the packaging team with this team. Firstly, i
> don't see how people would be so confused. If a person is looking for
> the packaging team, i am sure they will find it. If i add a link from
> the gaming team page to the packaging team, i am in no way saying that
> their team works under ours. If anything, it could direct more people
> to the packaging team who otherwise would never have found it. What
> chaos will arise from keeping the name, "Ubuntu Gaming Team"? 

Add a note at the bottom of the description saying there is no direct
affiliation and a link to the Debian team would be good enough IMHO.

I agree that this could push people to the Debian team over time and
have more people work with them. I would not do as some and jump on the
created team on day one, but let it evolve for a while and see where it
settles in the grand scheme of things. Adjustments if need can be made
then.

Regards

Phil

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